Looking Back at our First 10 Episodes: Recap with Bunny and Johanna Part 1

Bunny: 0:03

This is Bunny Terry and I’m the host of the lifesaving gratitude podcast. And today we’re doing episode 11, which means that we’ve amazingly , recorded 10 episodes. All of which were amazing beyond my wildest expectations. We’ve covered a lot of ground and Johanna and I decided one of the fun things to do would be to create a recap so that we could go back over all the things that we’ve learned this time around. I was so surprised. I thought that I knew what stories were going to be in every single time they were different.

Johanna : 0:53

Yeah, it’s pretty crazy to think we’ve already done 10 episodes. And I mean, every, every interview has been like so interesting. Every interview has had something in it that surprises us, I think. And , you know, we’ve learned so much from these first 10 stories. I mean, one of them is ours, but still, I think we learned more even about our story doing this podcast. And I mean, just the podcasting process has been a learning, like a big learning curve, you know, I’ve had to learn all the technical aspects and sometimes having to move from one software to another and, you know, scheduling people. It’s been, I think that, I mean, there’s a lot of behind the scenes that people don’t see it , it goes into it . I mean, really we started recording in April and we didn’t even come out with the first episode till May.

Bunny: 1:55

Right. And I, you know, this, it sounds so effortless when somebody else does it and we’ve been such rookies. But so I think the part that that’s important to me when I look back, is that just by having these in-depth conversations, just by listening, just by being , I don’t know. I kind of think of it as being in communion , but being in communication with somebody and you thought you knew their story, or you thought she had an idea what they were going to say. And when we take time together and when we listen, here’s this, there’s some pretty powerful ideas that come across and things that I’ve, and even going back and listening to them, again, things that I’ve put into practice, you know, sometimes we think we have all the answers and then somebody tells us their story. And I’m like, what , what , why did I know that? Even you, you tell me things I’m like, holy mackerel, I can’t believe, I didn’t know that.

Johanna : 2:59

Yeah. There’s something about giving people, the platform and the space and time to just tell their story. I think, you know, even when we’re just talking to people day-to-day and we say like, how are you? You know, you always get like the quick answer , I’m fine. Or you don’t really get into it. But when you give people the space to tell their story, you get just so much out of it. And I think they appreciate the opportunity to tell their story too . And , the, the fact that we’re doing this as a podcast and we’re putting it out there for everyone to hear is amazing because we don’t know how many people it’s going to impact. And we don’t know who really needed to hear that story that day or who can share it with somebody who needed to hear it. So I think it’s just, I don’t know. I don’t want to say like, oh, we’re, we’re just giving this gift to people, but I feel like that sometimes, like, and it’s a gift to us to get to hear it.

Bunny: 3:55

Oh, I think, I think it’s a bigger, I mean, it’s the biggest gift to me. I don’t know how everybody else is hearing it , but I also think, and this is what doesn’t happen in conversations . You know, maybe you’re having lunch with somebody and you’re having a conversation, but you’re also thinking about, you know, here’s what I’ve got coming up this afternoon and here’s what I have to do next Thursday. And when we’re in this space, we’re focused on hearing the story and processing it in a way that I haven’t done before. I love this platform. And, and, and I thought that I really liked to talk to people before, but this is the best.

Johanna : 4:34

Yeah. Yeah. It’s pretty cool. You’re getting that the real in-depth piece of them, not just the social obligation or just like the pat answers to things , people are really opening up. And I mean, I appreciate people being so honest with us. And really, I think it’s a testament to who you are as a person, you know, that they’re, they’re trusting you with their story and they’re trusting to tell it to you. So we’re going to kind of go through each episode and just kind of talk about what we learned from them. And you know, just, and also really just wanted to thank all of our listeners . If we have new , listeners we just really appreciate you.

Bunny: 5:19

Yeah . Well, and we’d like to hear back from them, you know, they can go to the website and contact us and let us know, you know, who, who did they know that we should know that , who has a great story to tell, you know, we started out with sort of this list of people we wanted to talk to. And we ended up with , somebody who was a voluntary amputee. Somebody who’s a recovering alcoholic, which we didn’t know, somebody who’s lost a child to suicide. And she was so forthright with us. She was so open. We ended up with a lot of different guests and, and I’m really excited about the next 10 people that we’re going to interview, but the fun part was beginning. And you and I talking to each other , in this really safe, focused way about , about our crazy little gratitude journey. What’d you think of that?

Johanna : 6:21

Um, gosh, yeah. Now I’m like, gotta look back. That was so, so many weeks ago. And it’s funny because we talk almost every day, but we don’t always talk about , that time eight years ago, almost almost nine years ago now when you were diagnosed and , it’s pretty cool. I saw that memory today on Facebook, that was eight years ago today, you had your last chemo treatment. It’s like weird fate that we’re recording this today. But , I mean, I think.

Bunny: 6:54

Well, and I think we got to say really quickly for somebody who doesn’t know us, that , I’m a stage four colon cancer survivor, and you were my caregiver

Johanna : 7:04

Daughter caregiver now producer, assistant all of the above. Yeah. So in the first episode we talked a lot about , just kind of your initial diagnosis and then your process of writing your book, life-saving gratitude , which you can find on Amazon. Just a little plug there. And I think for me, it’s kinda mixed in some of the things with the first episode are mixed in with how I felt when I read your book to the first time I’m realizing. I think a lot of times you were putting on like such a brave face. And I think when people read your book too , I mean, or maybe when they just see the title, they’re thinking, oh, this person is just all about gratitude, but there’s so much in there that’s deeper. And like the realness of it, I guess , you know, that, that you really had to dig deep and to sometimes find those moments of gratitude and that you, you know, you’re a real person too, and you have those down days and it’s never easy getting a diagnosis like that and going through it. So , it was nice just to have that opportunity to kind of talk about it again, and the feedback we’ve gotten. Other than people just being like, oh, I heard your voice on a podcast. Oh, it’s so different too, to hear it, to hear you talk about it firsthand it’s , I mean, every aspect of it is a different, like, it’s , it’s was different for them when they read it in the book. You know, people discovered things about you and about us , that they didn’t know. And then hearing us talk about it to each other is, you know, you get a different aspect of it too. So I think people, there are still people, I guess what I’m trying to say, there are still people coming to us and saying, wow, I didn’t know that, or, wow, that really surprised me. Because I thought I knew your story. You know, our family members, our friends that were even there , along for the ride are still hearing pieces that they didn’t know. So.

Bunny: 9:06

Right. And I, and I think that’s a good lesson for anybody who’s living with somebody who has cancer or who knows somebody who was recently diagnosed with some sort of chronic illness, is that it’s never exactly how it looks to the outside world. So you gotta , we have to give each other a lot of grace. I mean, whatever the instance is, we have to, we have to know that the only thing that we’re really an expert in, is what’s happening with us at the moment that we’re in it. Because even, you know, even my mom, even your Granny is like, I had no idea. It was like that. And I got to tell you something, I just re-read the book for the first time, since it was published, I read it last weekend. And I, I was I was somewhat pleased because it was better than I thought it was. You live with that. I mean, for people who haven’t read it, it’s really a product of the journal that I kept when I was sick, but I went back and read it and I thought, so I get it now a little bit. I said a few things that I’m kind of surprised at how some of them really did sound like information I would give to somebody I love who’s in the same place. So it’s you just never know, you never know what’s going on with the rest of the world. You got to stop and listen.

Johanna : 10:37

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Bunny: 10:41

But the book is also about how, when I looked back, I discovered that gratitude had been this really amazing vehicle through which I filtered my grief and my fear. And I know now that gratitude was just as important as the medicine and the health care that I received.

Johanna : 11:05

So I think it was good for us to talk about that more and to kind of break it down in that first episode, like, yes, we say and you say gratitude saving, and we truly believe that, but it’s also because of that mindset and it’s not just, you know, a slogan on a pillow or something it’s a lifestyle.

Bunny: 11:25

No, no, no. And you know what I , I mean, one thing and certainly will , when we do the, you know, when we get to her episode, we’ll do it, but I loved how Cari Hibal Briner said, you know, the , the way that she began her morning, routine years ago when she didn’t have a morning routine, because she didn’t think she was a morning person. And she said, I just finally figured out that all I had to do was roll over and grab my gratitude journal and write down two things like it. And it took me seconds, but she said it just created a shift in her mind. And I think that’s more of what we’re talking about, you know, we’re not talking about rainbows and puppies and kittens and

Johanna : 12:08

Yeah .

Bunny: 12:09

Or mall admittance, we’re talking about mindfully saying, I’m going to choose this thought over that thought.

Johanna : 12:20

So there was some good quotes , from that first episode that we’ll kind of pull and I’ll plug them in here and, you know, hopefully just entice people if they haven’t heard that first episode to listen to it. And or if you have listened to it to listen to it again and see if there’s anything else. Because , I mean, I feel that way a lot about, about a lot of podcasts. I listen to, sometimes I have to listen to them a couple of times and really get the full, the full piece of it.

Bunny: 12:51

You know, the , and there’s that quote, this is what I thought of when I was listening to them again, is that there’s that quote that you never stand in the same river twice, because not only is the water that’s flowing by different, but you’re different the next time you stand in it. And I then went back and listened to Craig and Amber, especially because there they were, you know, the first two that we did, I didn’t even, I didn’t even realize they said those things. So I had to go back and listen back. It’s helpful to me.

Johanna : 13:23

Totally. Totally. So, yeah, speaking of Craig, he was our second guest and so nice of him to want to come on, you know, when we were just starting out and nobody, you hadn’t heard any episodes yet to kind of know what we were doing, but I have worked with Craig. Well, we both have , but I asked him yesterday, if you know , he’s gotten any, any feedback or if he’s anybody he knows, has heard the episode. And he did say that he got a call from a friend who actually has been diagnosed with leukemia and so that they loved hearing it. And , um, you know , it didn’t give me all the details, but he said that that was, you know, meaningful to that person. So again, you never know who’s going to hear that. And it’s pretty cool to not only impact our circle, but the circle of the people that we’re interviewing too.

Bunny: 14:19

Well. And Craig did such a good job of , you know, he’s a cancer survivor, but he also , was in an industry , hospitality industry for a long time where he , he said he had to learn that every day, his job was to make the experience of his guests and his customers and his clients , uh, a wow experience. And part of that was showing them on a , on a constant basis, how grateful he was, that they had made the choice to be in his business. And I thought, that’s, that’s, you know, if, if I could take a young entrepreneur and say, there’s one thing, there’s one thing you’ve got to know. It’s not that you have to have a perfect lead generation system where you have to have a perfect marketing system. It’s that you have to know how to make your guests feel like they’re the only one in, in your vision at the moment. And people don’t get that. People get so busy building a business that they forget the piece of letting the customer know how you’re going to solve their problem and how important they are to you, not how important you are to them, but the other way around. And I thought Craig did a really good job of talking about that.

Johanna : 15:36

Yeah . Yeah, definitely. I liked how he kind of said too , that being grateful it’s like, people can just tell when you’re grateful, like if you’re coming from that mindset and like you say a lot, coming from contribution, coming from , a grateful mindset that, that the customers can pick up on that it’s not necessarily like an action that you do, or it’s not like, oh, here, I got you a gift for whatever selling your house, but it’s just like that personality and that , um, it just comes across and people can see that when you are genuinely grateful for having them, you know, to work with or as a client.

Craig : 16:20

It was always about really every day waking up and saying, what can I do to make somebody’s day? And to give them a great experience. And of course, you know, that you have to be grateful because they opted to choose you over a million other choices that they had .

Johanna : 16:43

That’s I think that’s another thing like we always talk about is like, gratitude is free and you can just give it away all the time and you don’t, it doesn’t have to be like a big showy thing. You can just , feel grateful and other people will start to pick up on that.

Bunny: 16:56

Oh, I, you know, one of the things I do when I end an email with the client is they always say don’t hesitate to get in touch with me. I’m here to help. And I mentioned that one time to a class of real estate students, and they were all like, yeah, but then they’ll just bother you. And I said, but that’s your job, your job, your job is to make the lives of your clients better. And Craig said that really well. He said , and you hear this all the time, if you’re in business, but business is not just a transaction, it’s a relationship. And, and you need to treat these people almost like they’re your family. Well, treat them better than your family. If you’re somebody who’s not close to your family, but, but they have to feel really cherished because then they’ll come back.

Johanna : 17:48

So then we talked to Amber or is it

Bunny: 17:53

The shift, right? Was that a huge shift? I’m sorry.

Johanna : 17:58

No , yeah, I think it was, I think, you know, it might be a hard episode for some people to listen to. I know it was we’ve, we’ve gotten that feedback too, but I think, yes, it is a tough topic and she does talk about suicide and , losing her son, but it’s so important. And I think we can’t shy away from the hard things either. We have to, I mean, that is this person’s life and she’s a friend and there are more people than, you know, who have been through an experience like that. So you can’t always just turn, turn away from a hard topic. And I think we learned a lot from her, from her story and it’s, it seems like she has even just sharing her story. Again, things have changed for her as well.

Bunny: 18:50

Right. I talked to her, you know, I had lunch with Amber. About two weeks after we did the episode and when I saw her, her , she was sort of a glow. And when I had called her about doing the episode, she said, well, I, you know, I don’t know, let me think about it. And then the next day she called me back and said, yeah, I’ll do it. But what had happened during COVID is that Amber had shut down a little bit and she alluded to it in her podcast. She said that she had her son died in 2012 and , last year would have been his senior year in high school. And he would have graduated last may is the way I recall it. And she said she never really grieved properly. And last may, she had a little bit of a breakdown. And so for the last year, she has really isolated with her family and sort of , stepped away because she wasn’t able to be an activist in the ways that she had done it before. And she, so when I saw her at lunch, she said, I have to tell you that doing the podcast really, it woke me up,

Amber: 20:11

I got this intense sense of purpose and that’s what gave me the strength to tell that story because I mean to this day, I never want anyone to know what it’s like to lose a child to suicide .

Bunny: 20:32

And she said, I’ve , you know, I’ve been obviously I’ve she journals all the time, but she said, I picked that back up and I’ve , I’m turning that into a book. And then when I talked to her yesterday and said, we’re going to do a recap , she, there was just a level of energy and enthusiasm in her voice that I hadn’t heard before. And I’m not, you know, I’m not saying we changed her life. I’m saying that, speaking about this story in a safe place, and knowing that we were gonna honor her story about that, that we were going to have our own love for, that was empowering to her, my belief.

Johanna : 21:22

Yeah. Yeah, totally. That’s amazing. And I cannot wait to read her book. I mean , every person we’ve interviewed, I’ve , you know, if I wasn’t already friends with them online, I will go and find them and, you know, become, follow what they’re doing. And I just love seeing just her, her posts. And sometimes she will post about Thad. And I think that that’s amazing that she’s not afraid to do that. And I just, I mean, what I’m trying to say is like, she’s just an interesting person to follow and she’s you know, kind of a ray of light if I can get hokey with it too. But yeah. I like seeing that. And so I’m excited to see what she, I’m excited to read her book and, and also her sharing. Oh, what I was going to say was, I remember even, when we were kind of booking her, like , and she was a little , um, unsure of it, and even, you know, she was grateful that we sent questions to her ahead of time because she said, you know, she has had some kind of not so great experiences with interviews. And , um, we didn’t really realize at the time that we were doing something, I mean, we were just taught that that was our format, but it was really a more considerate thing that, and I think made her feel more comfortable in doing it. And that probably changed the whole aspect of the interview. Just having her feel open and able to be honest about it. And again, you know, if anybody else’s is struggling with that topic or depression, suicidal thoughts , uh, we have a lot of resources for you. And Amber is also a resource. She’s an advocate and she has , um, resources that we’ve provided before. And we’ll provide those again. But yeah, she’s putting something great out into the world. So I can’t wait to see what she does.

Bunny: 23:18

Well, and the one thing I would leave people with , with regard to her podcast , so that they’d go back and listen to it, if you can, is that she said, and you and I found this when we , when I went to , call on Congress, is that, you know, she said the biggest thing that you can do to keep yourself mentally healthy is to find your tribe, find the people who, who understand your story, who , um, who get it, who, you know, it’s the first time we went to call on Congress and everybody stood up and told their story. I was petrified because, you know, up until that time, I had, I had been the only, really the only colon cancer person in my crew, other than rose and to, to find my tribe and to find my voice and to know that when we lock arms and we walk forward, we, we really can change the world. And that’s what Amber did. She got out and found people , uh, and she said, you know, if you’re an artist, you get together with artists. And if you are a young mom, you get together with young moms, but whatever it means, you have to find connection with people who understand your story.

Johanna : 24:34

Yeah. It’s so important. And I think, yeah, just like in this last year and a half or so, being isolated and not being able to have that sense of community, it’s going to be even more impactful now to get out there and in whatever way you can, and you feel safe too , to kind of have that yeah. To have that community again. And whether that means, you know, I got to find somebody on a podcast or find somebody on mine, get, do that, reach out to people. So you don’t feel so alone and so isolated because you’re not, there’s, there’s people out there who’ve been through what, you’re, what you’re going through. Of course, nobody can know exactly how you’re feeling, but it’s just being able to share that with somebody who can kind of understand is, is so huge and so healing.

Bunny: 25:24

And there was one other things she said that I loved and I wrote down and I, and I want to put it on my whiteboard is that she said, you know, we do specific things in my family now, you know, even her young son meditates. And she said, but she said, some people may think it’s weird, but weird is awesome. I love that. I love that we get so caught up in thinking about how we’re perceived. Um, and I’m working really hard on that, but I love that weird is awesome.

Johanna : 25:53

Oh man. Yeah. That’s like, that’s like our family quote too . You know, we have a sign that I made for our wedding and I still have it on my wall. It’s like, it says mutual weirdness forever because like we found our combined weird onus and, and our, and our, and our other weirdo and we, we just kind of bonded together and now, you know, we call Milo our little weirdos. We’re like, it’s, it’s good to be weird. It’s good to be different. Right, right . Yeah. That’s awesome. Oh man. Carrie’s episode. This one was you know, I think I use some of the things that she said in my daily life, more than some of the other ones, even like, you know, living your life, not your mind and being motivated to , um, be more motivated to not go back to a bad place then to , reach like an achievement or a goal that I’ve shared with so many people. And I’m like, that is so true. When you think about where you’re going and what you want in life, I feel like you really are personally more motivated to stay away from, you know, going backwards or going back to a place you don’t want to be at then, oh, I want to reach this like million dollar goal, or I want to make this much money or buy this big house. Like that’s not motivating, at least for me. And a lot of people, I know that’s not as motivating as, I just don’t want to go back to this place, like an unhappy place or a toxic place, or , a work environment that is not fulfilling. I really loved how she put that into words. And it was, she said it so much better than I am now, but I pulled that out .

Bunny: 27:35

She said, you know, we move, we move more powerfully away from pain than we do toward gains . So it’s the moving away from negativity, from pain, from, from an old life that didn’t feed us. And that, that, that was really important.

Cari: 28:00

What I found over the years though, is that naturally as human beings, we will run further away from pain than we will ever run towards pleasure. So sometimes I feel like when we focus so much on a big why , or , some of these things, these goals, even though we want them very much, if there’s something that is painful in our life, that’s going to be far more motivating than, than the things we’re going towards. So,

Bunny: 28:30

And she said you have to be present when you’re in a state of gratitude that gratitude and negativity can’t live in the same space. You know, I used to say that love and fear. Cause I was in a relationship at one time where I was a little fearful and I had a therapist who said, you know, love and fear can not live in the same place. So if you’re fearful, I think that may mean that there’s not love in that space and what Carrie, and when Carrie was talking about, you know, your mindset and being positive and being grateful, she was really clear that when you do that, there’s no space for negativity because your brain can’t hold them both at the same time.

Johanna : 29:15

Yeah . Yeah.

Bunny: 29:16

And then she talked about first and second thoughts, but I thought that was really cool.

Johanna: 29:21

I love that part too. Like, and saying that, but so that you c ould kind of change your mindset like, oh, this is happening, but y ou k now, I’m grateful for this, because it’s so automatic and easy for our brains to go to the negative. You really, really have to train yourself to stay positive and look towards gratitude. It’s not easy.

Bunny: 29:44

And then she talked about self-trust. I mean, she, this episode square , when I started looking at the bullet points, I was like, I don’t even know. Which is the most important. She said that lots of people you think don’t, they don’t have confidence. Like it , you know, they don’t, they don’t exude confidence. They, you think that they need to gain more confidence, but it’s all about learning to trust ourselves.

Johanna : 30:10

Yeah. That’s one where you almost want to just go pull. The whole transcript.

Bunny: 30:15

I know.

Johanna: 30:17

That was a really great episode. And she speaks with you know, such knowledge about what she’s talking about and everything that she said is something that she’s experienced. You know, she really practices what she preaches. And she’s learned a lot from her life and her experience. And I think a lot of other people can too. And just , yeah, I’m looking at some of the quotes now. And you’ve got to do something every day that makes you uncomfortable, you know, pushing yourself outside your comfort zone. That’s huge.

Bunny: 30:50

Well, and, and, and she talked about, and, and you know, who else talked about this? The same thing was Daphne Miller. She said, we’re really trained our body likes to be static. Our body likes to remain comfortable and our brain likes to remain comfortable. And so when Cari said, you’ve got to do something every day, that makes you uncomfortable. She was talking about growth and you can’t have a growth mindset. If you say I’m perfectly comfortable. We hear that a lot in , in motivational speak for realtors is you get up , you have to get uncomfortable. This is uncomfortable for me. I mean, doing a podcast is uncomfortable to me. And yeah, I think that there’s, I think that the I mean, maybe the person that that’s experiencing the most growth from doing this is me. I mean, I’m 60 years old and I’m doing something that’s completely new.

Johanna : 31:54

Yeah. Just the fact that we’re, we’re being vulnerable enough ourselves, let alone our , our guests like being vulnerable enough to put ourselves out there to say things and know that we might not always sound the smartest or we might mess up. But knowing that, you know, it’s , it’s worth the discomfort. You know, whether people are completely not judging what we’re doing, we’re saying like, I don’t care because somebody out there is enjoying or getting something from what we’re saying. So, but we do have to get past it . I have to get past it . Every single time I publish an episode. I’m like, okay, what are people gonna think or say, or people even going to listen to it, it’s, it is uncomfortable, but you know , we’re doing it. We’re not going to give up. And hopefully that will inspire somebody else to

Bunny: 32:44

Right. And just one more thing that Cari said that I think is really important. And I say this all the time is that consistency is king. It’s not intensity. It’s not.. and you talked with her a lot about this, about how you can’t go from zero to 200 immediately. You can’t go from zero to running a 5k immediately, but it’s consistency that wins every day and learning to retrain your thoughts consistently will start to be, feel like second nature, but consistency wins.

Johanna: 33:16

Yeah. Yeah. I have , readjusted a lot of my routine and thought process just from that episode from stuff I learned from her, like having that morning routine and, and , and, and, but keeping it to fit kind of my lifestyle and something that I can actually do. And then not feel like I’m setting myself up for failure, but saying, Hey, like even just saying, I’m going to get up and then have make sure I eat something and make sure I do this one little thing that I keep consistent. I feel like I really, I mean, people talk about morning routines all the time, but the way she put it and , um, the way she made it. So , uh, I guess, easy to digest and easy to feel like you can actually do it. I really appreciated that.

Bunny: 34:07

Well, and it’s attainable. We always say, we see what other people are doing online. And, you know, I’m , I’m part of the miracle morning Facebook group. And it’s like, I am not going to get up at four o’clock in the morning and do all that stuff, but I see people doing it and I think I’m failing. And that’s, she was really, really clear that , you’re right. You, you have to do what works for you. You have to do that with all your life. But in particular, when you are, are trying to create a new goal or , create a new habit, just do what’s best for you.

Johanna : 34:40

It’s progress, not perfection. Right. You gotta just… Oh , I did not make that up. Cari was awesome. Another person that I’m following now, and she has some great posts and things that she’s doing. So definitely keep up with her and go back and listen to that episode. It’s a really, really good one. That’s when you probably need to listen to like three or four times. And then we interviewed Stephanie, which was so cool because again, like you’ve known her since I was less than two. She said, you know, I , and I’ve known her, obviously my whole life. And just, I think that’s cool when you’ve known someone for so long, you kind of have these preconceived notions or like they have a , they’re kind of in a , uh , I don’t want to say like a box in your head, like you see them a certain way, but then when you hear them talk about their story and where they’re at now, and you know, you may, you may picture somebody that you’ve known forever. Like, oh, I still see them as that person when I first met them or like, oh, they’re still that person that I knew from high school or something, but no, she has evolved and changed. And I mean, she was always an awesome person, but just hearing her story was, was so cool. But also she’s another person that has struggled and has gone through insane, intense pain, and really just, you know, gone through low lows in her life, but has really found a way to pick herself back up and make a huge impact on her world and the people around her.

Bunny and Stephanie : 36:20

I’m sorry. We are not, we are not saying anything. I mean, you just have to laugh at your life. I mean, that’s how you survive, right? Yes. Correct. And you reach that place. You’re not in that place all the time, especially not at the beginnings of any of these medical journeys, but, but the quicker you get to the place of levity, the Saint , or you are, that’s my word . That’s , that’s been my word of counsel to many that levity grab a hold of it, put the definition on your, on your mirror, on your refrigerator, you know, and understand that’s very important.

Bunny: 37:19

Well , well , and to know that she made a conscious choice. She had botched, you know, started in 1998. She had this botched knee surgery that turned into what sounded like hundreds. I mean, it’s like, it was like eight or 10 botch surgeries over. And she voluntarily and finally found a doctor who would amputate her left leg. And I don’t even have words for what that would be like. I mean, maybe people don’t have words for what it would be like to have tumors removed from your body, but for me to lose one of my legs and to have my heart fail as a result of all of that pain is, is unthinkable. And Stephanie took that. And , um, and she is really different from the person that I knew when you guys were little kids. Stephanie was really, and she, I can say this, she’ll listen. And she’ll say, sure, she’s right. She was very regimented. She was very a little OCD. And , um, she gave up her left leg in order to , um, rewrite her life. And she did it with a lot of humor and a lot grace. And then she took that experience and turned it into this life of advocacy and caring for others and telling her story really bravely. And I couldn’t believe I was talking, I loved her before, but this time it… see I don’t even have words. I can’t tell you what it feels like to talk to her now.

Johanna : 38:57

Yeah. It’s amazing because when you hear her story , or even if you just, you know, you’d never talked to her, but you kind of heard about her. Like, it would be easy to think that someone like that, you know, you would never , um, judge some more blame them in that situation, if they’ve just wanted to feel bad for themselves or, you know , um, kind of have that self pity and be just sad about their situation because yeah. Going from being , um, I mean, even though she did go through a lot of, of bad surgeries and bad medical things like to, to then have to like, basically relearn how to live life with just one leg, it would be, I would not blame her for , for feeling sorry for herself, but she’s not like that at all. She’s, she’s taken like basically relearned or re , um, like taking life back into her own hands and, and say like, even though I’m living life this way as an amputee , you know, I’m gonna find my community, I’m going to be an advocate. I’m going to still be active. And really, I feel like it gave her, it seems like it gave her a new lease on life to well and to one, not be in that pain anymore. I think it just, you never know how something like that is going to affect somebody, but I think she really is making the best of it. And then she’s also, you know, what she’s doing with making her crosses and giving back to the community through that, and still just being so, so active, even like just doing things around the house, I feel like that would be difficult.

Bunny: 40:37

Well and she’s, and getting rid of that pain. I mean, this is just like Carrie said, moving away from pain because that’s , that’s what Stephanie did in the most literal sense. You know, now she goes fishing. She goes to her brother’s workshop and builds crosses. And she is , um, she’s so much more involved in life than she was when she was in all that constant pain. And so I’m so proud to know her. I’m so proud that I’m so excited that she agreed to speak with us. And, and now here we are, where these two old gals being , being advocates.

Johanna : 41:18

Yeah. It , I was just gonna say, it reminds me so much of you. It makes me think of you that like, of course, again, you’re never grateful that you were sick or that you got cancer or the things that you had to go through when you, when you were in treatment, but it has impacted your life in such a way that you’re living a better life. Now. I mean, I’m going to say from someone from the outside, but like you’re, you’re living life more fully because, you know , um, you know, we’re , we’re only given this one chance and it can be taken away from you so quickly, whether it’s cancer, whether it’s a bad knee surgery, whether it’s , um, you know, depression, you never know how quickly life can just end or, or be changed to the fact that you can’t do what you want to do. So , um, when you have those things happen to you, it , it gives you, I don’t know, again, a new, a new meaning to life and more motivating. Like now you’re doing, like you said, all the advocacy and working with the cancer foundation. And you’re also , um, you know, just to enjoy life more like having more time with your friends, wanting to go on more trips, like just every aspect of it , um, has made you, I’m saying , I’m speaking for you, but I feel like it’s made you , just want to live live life more

Bunny: 42:40

Well. And I would say the other thing I would say is this is some of what , um, this is some of what we’re learning is that everyone we know everyone we speak to has been through a pretty harrowing experience. At least the people who don’t, who don’t show up as the experts or the coaches, but every one of them , um, Stephanie for her leg , Amber for losing her child, they would not . Now we were really careful with Amber because she, she doesn’t say that she’s grateful that she lost her child, what she’s grateful for and what I’m grateful for. You know, I’m not grateful that I have this huge scar on my gut. Stephanie’s not grateful that she’s missing a leg. What she’s grateful for is that that experience brought her to a completely different place. And actually for her improved her life. And I, it would be hard to go back , to the place where I didn’t have the experience that I have now.

Johanna : 43:49

Yeah. It just makes you appreciate things more. And of course we don’t want people to have to go through something traumatic like that. We’re hoping that hearing these stories and just having this reminder , that you can be grateful for the life you have, and you can just find that little, little pieces of gratitude everywhere and hopefully learn, just kind of expand your world through other people’s stories. That’s so huge.

Bunny: 44:20

Johanna , I was going to suggest that we go on to talk about Tiffany’s episode, but given the time that we’ve taken to talk about all this and the fact that we’ve inserted some quotes from each one, I’d say, let’s do another recap. Let’s talk. So, so we have gotten through the first five episodes , um, done a recap, and there is so much to unpack in each one of these episodes that we’ll do a recap of the next five in the next time we get together, right?

Johanna : 44:46

Yeah, definitely. I think we want to give everyone the time they deserve and there’s , we have so much to talk about each episode, so we will see you back next week with the second recap episode. And in the meantime, you can always go back and listen to our first 10 episodes. Oh , thanks for checking in with Lifesaving Gratitude. Yeah. And you can always, like we’ve said, if you have questions you can reach out , you can find Lifesaving Gratitude on Instagram at lifesavinggratitudepod. And our Facebook page is Bunny Terry Author. And you can also just find Bunny on Facebook at Bunny Terry . So definitely reach out to us. If you have questions, your own insight , anybody that you want to suggest for an episode as well.

Bunny: 45:36

I’ll say what I always say at the end of my blog or at the end of the podcast. Thanks for checking. [inaudible] .

Bunny: Hi everyone. This is Bunny with the Lifesaving Gratitude podcast. Just in case you don’t know me, I am a stage four colon cancer survivor and the author of Lifesaving Gratitude, which is a book about how gratitude helped me kick cancer’s ass. 

Today we’re going to talk to a special guest about how marketing and marketers can use gratitude to create business and connections with clients and also for themselves to create a really positive way to do their job. But first, I just want to thank you for being here and ask that you download the podcast if you’d like. And certainly subscribe wherever you listen to other podcasts. But enough about me and enough about the podcast. 

I want to introduce you to my special guest, who’s also a friend. Craig Cunningham is currently a realtor with Keller Williams, Santa Fe. And that’s how I met him. However, this is a recent career for him and he was, and correct me if I mispronounce the word, but you were a hotelier. Is that the way to say that?

Craig: Yes. 

Bunny: Yes. He’s spent 30 years in corporate sales and marketing. He’s traveled extensively. I’m going to let him tell you all the places that he’s been to, but he is the founder and principal of Cunningham + Colleagues marketing consultants. He was in the past the VP of marketing and quality for Seaport Hotels and World Centers and the VP of marketing for Core North America. So welcome Craig Cunningham.

Craig: Thanks so much for having me on your podcast.

Bunny: I’m excited. I know you have some great tips for all of our listeners. When I think about these podcasts, I always think about the people that are going to want the information we’re offering. I mean, we’re here to help people and we’re here to figure out how gratitude can make everyone’s life not just easier and simpler, but also fuller. So why don’t you start, Greg? Just tell us a little bit about yourself. Tell us how in the world you ended up in this completely different career? And yet the truth is we’re still just marketers first and realtors, second. Tell me a little bit about yourself. Tell our listeners.

Craig: Yeah. So, as you said, I’ve been in marketing and sales for more than 30 years. I actually started off with an advertising and PR agency and then had the good fortune to be hired by my hotel client at the time, Wyndham hotels. At that time it was a North American chain and it’s now international. 

But from then on, I was in the hotel business. It’s definitely a career where if you are not focused on client service and the whole concept of gratitude, you’re not going to be successful. I always thought of our job as just surprising and delighting our guests and making them feel like they chose the right hotel to be with. And so it was always about waking up every day and saying, “What can I do to make somebody’s day and to give them a great experience?” And, of course, to do this you have to be grateful because they opted to choose your hotel over the million other choices that they had. 

So when I retired from the hotel business two years ago, I was trying to figure out what else I wanted to do with my life. I started doing more volunteering. I volunteer with Kitchen Angels here in Santa Fe to deliver meals to people who are not able to leave their homes. But I also started thinking of whether I wanted to do something else from a professional standpoint and the real estate business seemed like a natural extension, because it’s all about client service. You have to figure out ways to make people feel like they’ve made the right choice in working with you. So it’s all about being grateful every day and figuring out what can I do to help them today. How else can I extend what I’m doing for them in a way that they will appreciate and know that I appreciate them. So that’s what it’s really all about, because of course they could work with a million other other people

Bunny: Right. And let’s talk for just a second. Don’t you think that marketing has changed over the 30 years that you’ve been doing this? I mean, it seems to me that when we were kids, which was back before the crust cooled, we were sort of marketed at. Just talk for a minute about how marketing is different now than it was 10 years ago or 30 years ago.

Craig: It’s funny, because I was going to say the exact same thing. Back in the day, you were running a TV ad or a radio spot or a print ad and it was passive in that you just presented the information, unless you were direct sales. But really with the advent of so much digital media, you are instantly able to forge a relationship with customers through social media, through Facebook, Instagram, where you’re having a dialogue with them from the very beginning. This allows you to work in a much more personal way and to be able to find out much more quickly how you can serve those people. 

So I think it’s changed completely. Before you just sort of put it out there into the ether and hope that something worked, and now you’re able to engage. And I’ve found that so much in real estate where I’m getting emails from folks and then it evolves from the email into a phone call or a zoom call or something like that instantly. I think that’s so much better for both people. Especially for somebody like me who wants to find ways to engage with people and to be of service to them, it makes it a lot easier and more rewarding.

Bunny: I just think about the ways that I connect with my clients. It’s as if you’re somehow conveying to those people that you’re grateful that they showed up.

Craig: Yeah, exactly. I mean, my whole thought is that it’s not a transaction, it’s a relationship. And that relationship can be multifaceted. Once you’ve sold them a house or sold their house, I like to think that we’ve formed a friendship and a bond and that relationship is going to continue. And honestly, I don’t even care if I ever get another piece of business for them. Now think of them as friends. I want to have them to my house for dinner or go have coffee or something like that. 

I think that kind of thing that makes a difference for people in wanting to work with me.  It’s coming from a position of wanting to be of service to them and wanting to make them happy and finding the right solution for them. I’m working with some first-time-buyers right now and I kind of feel like they’re my kids. It’s about, okay, how can I really help them with this? And they’re grateful for the counsel I’m able to give to them, and I’m grateful for the opportunity to work with them. So it’s very rewarding. I think if you approach business relationships in the same way as you would with your friends, it’s a win-win situation for everybody.

Bunny: Well, talking about those first-time home buyers, I mean, that’s one of my favorite deals. You never make the most money from those transactions, but I’m so grateful to be reminded that we are providing the American dream when we’re selling real estate. Yeah. It’s amazing. It’s my favorite experience.

Craig: Yeah. I mean, for somebody to have their first home and to be excited about how they’re going to decorate it and what they’re going to do. And with this young couple, seeing them excited when they see a house brings out all my empathy and makes me want to really go the extra mile for them to make sure they find the right house at the right price for them. And then I just never want to stop. So then it’s like, “Okay, now I’m going to find this person for you to do the plumbing, and I’m going to find this person, etc, and I’ll be with you with you  to help explain things.” I just want to really continue to be of service.

Bunny: I talk a lot, especially on my blog, about Judy Camp, who was one of my first real estate mentors. She was a great friend and Linda Gammons partner for a long time before she passed away. But Judy Camp always says, “If you come from contribution, you can’t help but be successful.”

Craig: Yeah. I mean, just as I was saying, you can’t think of it as a transaction. I think, coming from contribution, how can I help you? How can I make this a better experience? How can I make this work? Because, especially in a real estate transaction, it can be stressful. It’s the biggest financial transaction for the majority of us. So how do you take the burden and the pressure away from them and sort of guide them through the process? I just think the main thing is that it’s much more fun, whether you’re doing volunteer work or in business, to wake up every day and figure out how I could make it fun for somebody else. Because then it’s fun for you and it gets you excited and passionate about what you’re doing.

Bunny: Well, it sounds like our big “why’s” are really similar. I certainly don’t want to put any words in your mouth, but it sounds like your big “why” is just to make the life of the people you come in contact with better.

Craig: Yeah. Of course making money is nice, but there are lots of ways to make money. It’s more about whether you are getting energy from it. And I think you really get energy when you’re working with someone and trying to figure out how you can help them, how you can make their day better, how you can make the service that you’re providing better. And also just doing things that saying, “What about if I do X, Y, Z?” and they’re  like, “Oh, you’ll do that for me?” And I’m like, “Of course.”

I have another set of clients where the transaction was fairly complicated and we were looking at lots of properties. Coming from a corporate background, I love to do spreadsheets and PowerPoint presentations—things like that. And so after about the third thing we had to do, they’re like, “Oh, how are we going to organize all these bids?”  And then one of the guys said to the other guy, “Well, Craig’s going to do a spreadsheet for us. He’s probably already got it done.” So it’s that kind of thing where you’re looking for ways to make their experience better.

Bunny: So this is always a funny question for me to ask, because I have such a loose gratitude practice other than just waking up in the morning and saying, “thank you, thank you, thank you,” and then writing things down, but do you have a practice that you follow that helps you both in your business and your personal life?

Craig: Well, since I came into real estate with Keller Williams, which focuses a lot on being servant leaders and helping people, I’ve gotten into the habit of writing three things I’m grateful for that day. It could be that it’s a beautiful day or a dog or my partner or the opportunity to help somebody or the coffee’s really good that day, but waking up and appreciating what you have in your life is a good way to get in a good mindset for the rest of it.

Bunny: Oh, absolutely. Something I always say is that we kind of rewire our brains. We do. We create new neural pathways every time we say that we’re grateful. So in terms of nuts and bolts, is there a way that you let your clients know? I mean, I find that there are a lot of young people, young entrepreneurs or people who are new to business, who forget how to tell their clients how they’re grateful for them, even if it’s a line in an email. Do you have something that you do specifically over and over?

Craig: I think for me, it’s maybe more in the actions. I think of “This is really going to be helpful if I do this or if I provide this information.” I think it’s always in my voice and the way that I write. I try to always communicate openly and in a friendly and conversational manner. But then I also think “It would be really cool and really helpful if I did X , Y , Z.” I created a whole PowerPoint just on the neighborhoods in Santa Fe, because if you’re out of town it gets confusing. And that came out of a client saying, “Well, I don’t really know the neighborhoods.” And I thought that this would be a great tool for them. So I created it and then I was able to use it with others. 

So I think for me, maybe it’s sort of on the fly. I used to say in the hotel hotel business, “How can I make this a wow experience?” Because the other way to think about it is that every relationship is with people. When you’re in a service business you’re really in the business of creating memories. You can create good memories or you can create bad memory and it’s much more fun to create good memories.

Bunny: And that just comes from a spirit of generosity. I mean, you obviously want this to be the best real estate experience they’ve ever had.

Craig: Right. Right. I’m very grateful for the people that have helped me along the way. I’ve been very fortunate in my career to always work for people who were concerned about my career development and my personal development and became dear friends. And I’ve had a couple of bosses that have hired me twice in two different jobs. So I’m always grateful for the things that other people have done for me. 

So then I want to pay it forward. When I came to Keller Williams and I was introduced to the team here, there was so much openness and willingness to share and help and support. It has been fantastic. What strikes me the most is how grateful I am for what other people have done for me. And how do I pay that back?

Bunny: I mean, this is not a podcast to plug Keller Williams. It’s really more to talk about mindset, but the place where I learned it was sitting in that training room and learning that my mindset was the secret sauce. I mean, that’s the success piece, right?

Craig: Yeah, exactly. It’s not just about production and everything. It’s about weight and having a sense of gratitude and contribution and a sense of abundance. And I don’t mean that in a monetary way. It could be abundance in your health or your friends or all of that kind of stuff. And I think back to you. Your experience with cancer was far worse than mine, but I did have prostate cancer about nine years ago. Everyone I worked with during that entire time when I was going for radiation every day for 10 weeks was so supportive. And then on the last day of radiation, there was this very important meeting, and everyone knew it was my last day.My whole team had a celebration for me on my last day. That was turning something that was obviously a challenging situation into something where I knew they really cared about me and supported me.

Bunny: Wow. I’m interested to hear how your mindset was in the middle of that? 

Craig: I’m just by nature, an optimistic person. So even though it was scary, I felt like I was in good hands from a medical standpoint and I just felt like I was gonna beat it. I had done the education that I needed to and then it was really about having a positive mindset. 

This is probably too much information, but I’ll say it anyway. You’re doing the radiation stripped down to your boxer shorts. And so I jokingly put this Facebook thing about the fact that I needed a new pair of boxer shorts for every day. And people started sending me underwear—different pairs of boxer shorts for every day. So while I was sitting there in the big machine, where you’re sort of in there and it’s buzzing and scanning and all that kind of stuff, it got to be kind of a joke with the techs:  “Oh , what’s he going to be wearing today?”

Bunny: I love that.

Craig: That was a way to keep my spirits up. And also during that process, I really learned how to be very focused. I was in a waiting room with people that were going through, frankly, worse things than prostate cancer. Don’t get me wrong, prostate cancer is pretty serious. It is. People die from it. But I was seeing so many other people that were having a much more challenging time than I was. And we became a family. We all bonded together during that process, because we were all waiting, sometimes for an hour. So it’s things like that. And also things like the kitchen angels service, where it helps reboot you every day for how grateful you should be in your own life and grateful for the opportunity to help other people.

Bunny: Right. There are tons of people who do get what a gift it is. People who don’t even have a specific gratitude practice, but at least an attitude every day that you’re going to figure out something. I just wrote a blog post on limiting beliefs and one of the things that I wanted to convey is that we get to choose every single moment how we view the world. And maybe for somebody out there who’s brand new in business or who’s starting a new business. I just read a statistic that said that the entrepreneur demographics are changing. And now like 48% of new entrepreneurs are over 50. So hooray for the old people! 

But I know that there are people out there right now who are thinking, “Well, I’m not any good at marketing. I’m not any good at that piece of it. I can sell stuff, but I’m not good at the marketing stuff.” I’ve got to tell you, I’m married to a guy who doesn’t believe in self promotion because he came from a generation when you played down your assets, instead of being grateful for them and talking about them. So I’d love to hear what you have to say to somebody who has that limiting belief that they can’t market. And they can’t promote themselves.

Craig: You know, we could all market ourselves, and we do it every day in our interactions.  Whether we think of it as marketing or not, we’re marketing ourselves all day long in how we react and treat other people. The thought I had as you were talking about your husband thinking self-promotion sounds like a dirty word is that it doesn’t have to be you talking  about “me, me, me” and “I did this million dollars in revenue.” This is kind of a turnoff in some ways, because you’re talking about yourself. But if you’re talking about how you can help somebody else and how you can provide a good experience for them with your information and knowledge, you’re not talking about yourself in that context. You’re talking about how you can be of service. I think that’s a much easier way for a lot of people from a generation where we weren’t really supposed to be talking about ourselves.

Bunny: Well, it was pre-social media. Our face wasn’t out there. We just weren’t trained to tell people, “Here’s the reason you should hire me instead of the other person.”

Craig: Yeah, exactly. I mean, now we’re all our own brands on social media. But I think that rather than saying to somebody, “Here’s why you should hire me versus somebody else,” you should just talk about how you can be of service in what you do in an authentic way. Then people are more likely to want to work with you, because you’re radiating a sense of positivity and an interest in them. And they’re not thinking that you just look at them as a transaction and then you’re onto the next person.

Bunny: I frequently use with my marketing coaching clients the example of a dinner party. If you went into a dinner party (and this is for people who are just beginning in whatever business they’re in, especially if they’re self-employed), you wouldn’t simply walk in, take your coat off and say, “Hey, I’m selling something, come and talk to me.” Right? I mean, that’s what you don’t want to do with marketing. You want to start by building a relationship. Can you talk a little bit about that? 

Craig: I think it goes all the way back to Dale Carnegie’s How to Win Friends and Influence People. People do like to talk about themselves. And so the first thing is you should be listening. That was one of the first things I learned in marketing client service. You need to ask questions and learn from your clients. Focus on what they need, as opposed to talking about yourself. You really want to establish a dialogue with them about their wants and needs and hopes and fears and everything else. Then you can talk about how you can address them. But nobody wants to go in and all of a sudden have you sit down and say, “Here’s my PowerPoint about me and what I’ve done.” It should be more of establishing, from the very beginning, a relationship of openness with folks. Then, after hearing from them, you can say “Well, here’s how I think I can you and here are some ideas that I have that I could share with you.” So I think a key thing is really listening from the very beginning.

Bunny: I even found that to be helpful when I used to first go on listing appointments. I was so nervous that I would sit down and I would immediately try to book an appointment. You know, if you’re not in real estate, a listing appointment is just like sitting down with a prospective customer. I would be so nervous in the beginning and really coming from a place of scarcity where I thought, “If I don’t get this listing, I’m not sure I can pay the rent next month.” And if you’re coming from a place of scarcity, you’re likely to self-sabotage. But that’s such good advice because things changed when I finally learned how to sit back and listen: “I’m here to help you. Tell me what it is that you need. Talk to me.” It’s so powerful to give a client time to talk to you. And I think people forget to do that, right?

Craig: Yeah. And I think sometimes we do it because we’re afraid. What I’ve learned so much over the years in business working with people is that people are terrified of silence, so they will immediately start talking. If there’s a second of silence, you jump in and start babbling. Lord knows I do it. But if you just let somebody talk and let it sort of sit there for a second and not just try to be filling in all the time. It drives me crazy when people are doing that. It’s much better if you can have the client talk and then ask some more questions and then be warm and reflective about it. Back to the Dale Carnegie thing, I think one of his first points was if you’re at the dinner party, ask people about themselves. Most people do like to talk about themselves. So ask them and don’t just start talking about yourself. 

Bunny: I think that even people who would say, “I don’t like to talk about myself,” really do want somebody to ask them and listen to them.

Craig: Yeah. And it’s not just asking them to go on and on. It’s more meaningful questions about, for example, why they decided to move here. Just those kinds of questions that get them thinking. Growing up in materialistic Dallas, the joke was that the questions at a party were like, “Where do you live? What do you do? What do you drive?” And so it’s not questions like that. It’s asking them more about their life experience,

Bunny: You just brought me to another completely different point, which is for any realtors out there listening: I think it’s really important to convey to your clients how grateful you are for where you live. I mean, if our lifestyle is such a selling point, don’t you think you should share that?

Craig: Oh, yeah, exactly. I mean, living in Santa Fe there’s so much beauty. I’m looking out my window right now at the beautiful blue sky. When I leave my house in the morning and I see the mountains, and then when I’m coming home at night and the sun is setting over the mountains and I see all the different colors and everything, it’s just breathtaking. It’s great to live in such a great and wonderful environment and in a place that is very spiritual, going back with the native Americans—respect for the earth and nature and all of those things—I think it does help center us more than a lot of other places.

Bunny: How do you convey that to your clients? I know you’re doing something really cool online that’s different from some other realtors.

Craig: Well, I’m not just posting on my Facebook page,” Hey, I just sold this house or just sold that house.” Well, that’s great. But I’m more talking about new experiences in Santa Fe: new restaurants, or a new place to go hiking, or something exciting that’s happening at one of the museums or things like that—enthusiastically talking about the experience of living in Santa Fe. And if down the road, by the way, you’re looking at this stuff and you decide you want to buy a house here, I would love to help you. But it’s more about conveying the reason why we all want to live here

Bunny: And tell us about your blog, because I think it’s amazing.

Craig: So I created this blog, which is called Santa Fe Scenes. It’s that same kind of thing where it’s just talking about having fun in Santa Fe. One of the things was, you know, we’ve got the old Santa Fe trail and we’ve got the old Pincus trail, but did you know that we had a Margarita trail and a Chocolate trail? Stuff like that. Just being whimsical about it and talking about some of the things are unique about the city and sharing my own passion for Santa Fe. I was very fortunate to be able to do a lot of international travel for my job. I was grateful for the opportunity that I was given to see places that I wouldn’t have seen otherwise from Bogota to Sao Paulo and Rio de Janeiro and Beijing and places like that. So I’ve always been enthusiastic about travel and now living in such a beautiful place like Santa Fe, I want to share that enthusiasm with people.

Bunny: And you’re getting some good feedback on that I bet, right?

Craig: Yes, I am. I’m getting good feedback on it. It’s been a wonderful thing to reconnect with friends who are saying, “Good for you, you old dog! You’re back out there trying something new.” Because whenever someone says, “Oh, you’re a new realtor,” I say, “Well, I’m an old new realtor. I’m 61 and I’m starting this for the first time.” But it’s been great from that perspective and the support that you get from your friends. Then people are saying, “Oh, well, I know somebody who might be interested in sending you that information.” I think that’s one of the positive things that social media has done where we’ve been able to reconnect with so many people that we might have completely lost touch with.

Bunny: Oh yeah. I did a post not very long ago about how grateful I was, and it was in the middle of all the fear over Facebook and Twitter. And I just said that it’s such a great platform for reconnecting with cousins that I haven’t seen since I was six. I mean, I just turned 60. I’m an old dog and this is a new trick for me, but I think that if you use it the right way, it’s a real gift. I also think there are so many realtors, like you said, who just post either pictures of houses that they have listed or their accomplishments. And I think they’re really missing an opportunity.

Craig: Yeah. Because then you’re just talking at someone. You’re not sharing information and excitement about things with them. People don’t want to look at that stuff. They want to look at things like the fact that there are like six great chocolate tiers in Santa Fe. And then the next time I’m in town, I want to go to each one of them. Or discovering an amazing new hiking trail or a beautiful image of a shop window or a piece of art or something like that. 

Bunny: Yeah, it’s so much better than “I just listed this house at 123 main street. Don’t you wish you owned it?” Exactly.

Craig: Exactly. I think more people would react to it. I’d really like to have some of that green chili chocolate over at The Chocolate Smith or whatever. It’s much more interesting than a picture of a kitchen that has granite countertops. Oh my goodness.

Bunny: And, you know, Craig, I found that people will call me and they’ll say, “Well, I’ve been following you on Facebook for two years. And I feel like you’re my best friend. I think you’d be the right person to show me around and help me find a house.” And I bet that’s happening to you too.

Craig: Yeah, exactly. It’s funny, you mentioned that. One of the people I’ve been mentoring told me a story about how she posted a lovely picture of herself and then somebody called her and said, “I feel like I already know you because you just look like a nice person and I feel like I can trust you.” I think also that it’s our eyes and our smile and everything that conveys so much of what you’re talking about. If you have a spirit of gratitude and service and a sense of abundance, not scarcity, it shows in your face, your eyes, your smile, and your whole persona.

Bunny: Well, we’re going to have to wrap up here in a minute, but I would love to hear if you have just three great tips that you would give to somebody who feels kind of stuck in their marketing. It could be what you’ve learned in 30 years or in the last three days, whatever it is.

Craig: I think one is changing your question from “How do I market myself?” to “What can I do for this client?” or “What can I do that’s going to excite the people? How can I make them feel appreciated and valued?” And this can work in cases where you’re actually working one-on-one with a client or cases where you’re trying to figure out how to promote what you’re doing. How do I find ways to surprise and delight people? So I like to do that with social media buys, where you come up with quirky, little things to talk about that are authentically Santa Fe or a funny picture of my dog or something like that. You want to put a smile on people’s faces. And social media gives us so many opportunities to be able to do that in ways that we couldn’t before. So the main thing at the end of it is to put your client first, and then I think everything else will come from there.

Bunny: You’re absolutely right. I think as long as your passion is helping people, then success is just a natural by-product of that.

Craig: Exactly. People feel that energy and then they want to tell their friends about you.

Bunny: What I’ve found is that people want to be able to trust somebody, especially in this business where they’re making possibly the biggest purchase of their life.

Craig: Right? I’m thinking back to these younger clients. We were touring houses, and they were interested in one particular house and I was like, “No, I’m not going to let you buy this. This is not the right move.” And I think all of a sudden they’re like, “Wow, he really cares. He’s not just thinking ‘Tick tock, tick tock. We’ve seen three houses.’” This is not House Hunters International where there are the three properties and you have to buy one. So again, it’s not a transaction. It’s a journey. It’s a relationship.

Bunny: I think that’s the most important tip for somebody to take away. Whether you’re selling widgets or earrings or house cars or houses, this is not a transaction. It’s a relationship. We want people to trust you and come back over and over. I don’t know how you can love your job if you’re not doing it the way we’re doing it.

Craig: Yeah, exactly. And have fun with it. We get to meet interesting people all day long. We get to see things. We get to use our own creativity to express ourselves. I know there are people that are in jobs that don’t have that. But I also read things about  the janitor in an elementary school who takes real pride in what they do, and they are going to do the best job that they possibly can. So I think in almost everything, you can come at it with a mindset of “How can I make this a great experience for me and for others?”

Bunny: That’s great stuff. Tell us where people can find you and where they can find your blog.

Craig: Well, probably the most fun thing I’m doing is the Santa Fe Scenes blog. 

Bunny: Okay. And we’ll share that on the information page for the podcast. And then, of course, if people want to buy a house from you, they can find you through there?

Craig: Yeah. All my information is on there. So one stop shop.

Bunny: Craig, I’m so excited that you were here. This was fun. I think we could do it again.

Craig: Yeah. Yeah.

Bunny: Because I think this is the place where people get stuck. People who are self-employed get stuck in this part. And so I think there’s a lot of stuff that we can talk about.  But I’m of course really grateful that you agreed to talk with us.

Craig: Oh, thanks. It’s been a lot of fun. I appreciate it. 

Bunny: And to everybody else, thanks for being here. This is once again, the Lifesaving Gratitude podcast. I’m Bunny Terry. You are welcome to go to my website if you’d like to learn more about me and about buying my book, which is all about gratitude and how gratitude helped me kick stage four cancer’s ass. And we’d love to have you follow us and subscribe on spot Spotify, Apple, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Thanks so much, Craig.

Craig: Thank you. Next time.