Gratitude and Giving Back: Daniel Vargas

Hi there every body, this is Bunny Terry with the Lifesaving gratitude podcasts . And I’m joined with my producer, Johanna Medina. We have a really special guest today. Daniel Vargas is a veteran an air force veteran who has now is devoting his, his time and his life and his energy to helping other veterans. And we – Daniel and I know each other distantly, we’re both real estate agents and we’ve been friends on Facebook for a long time. But as always, when we do these podcasts, there are surprises. And I, as always think my guest is going to give us information that I know about. And then, and then we learn so much more and it’s so much more enlightening. And I especially, I mean, Johanna, you’re married to a veteran and I, I thought that he did an exceptional job of talking about mental health, which I didn’t expect.

Johanna: 1:12

Yeah. It was really interesting. Um, like you said, I , I didn’t, I actually didn’t know about Daniel’s non-profit when we booked him, I knew him. Like you kind of did from Facebook, actually from your page. And I thought, oh, he’s a realtor. Um, but then to find out he’s involved in so much more. And then after the podcast, actually I was talking to Lisa about it. I said, you know, I think you’re really going to like this episode because he talks about, you know, a lot of stuff that I know you and I have talked about and a lot of stuff you’ve experienced and other , um , veterans , uh, I know have experienced, but also just everybody , um, I think can relate to his story and the things he’s going through. And I think it’s really inspiring how he’s , um, trying to work with kind of a hard system, but also providing things where there might be gaps and, you know, really meeting people where we’re at. But yeah, the mental health piece was really huge too. And I think that’s something that we just don’t talk about enough. I think as much as we talk about it , it’s , it’s not enough. So I was really excited and glad to hear what he had to share.

Bunny: 2:24

Well, and we talk all the time about giving back. Um, and you know, my, one of my mantras is to whom much is given much is required, but Daniel gives back in really big ways. And he is currently working on some projects. I think the , the sort of his most pressing need is coming up with funds to help someone who had colon surgery and then had a terrible reaction, I believe to the anesthesia , um, as was in the hospital for weeks upon weeks, like 12 or 13 weeks. And he’s trying to raise money to help remodel a bathroom for somebody who is now living in a wheelchair. I believe, I hope I have that. Right. And well, what I, what I want to let everybody know is that there are going to be a lot of links included with this , um, that may, that you may find this really helpful resources, whether you’re a veteran now, or you live with one or, you know, somebody who’s struggling in some way.

Johanna: 3:29

Yeah. And definitely stay tuned to the end because , Bunny is going to be kinda collaborating and working with Daniel to help raise some, some funds for his cause and his non-profit Operation Triage. Um, and so we have kind of an exciting surprise giveaway if you stay tuned till the end and want to , um , participate in that. So yeah, it’s , it’s a great episode.

Bunny: 3:57

That’s right. Stay right here and hear Daniel’s story and how he’s helping hundreds of people So today our guest is somebody that surprisingly I met through social media and over time I, you know, this is how it works on social media. You see somebody that is posting something you’re interested in, and then they continue to post things that, that really touch your heart. That opened your mind that have a story that you’re really interested in. So Daniel Vargas is our guest today and Daniel, I don’t know how long we’ve been Facebook friends. It seems like eight or 10 years, doesn’t it? Yes. It’s been awhile . It has. And I, I don’t have any idea how the first connection was made. All I know is that I think I saw something about you doing maybe a go-fund me or some sort of an activity to help a veteran with home repairs. I honestly, I can’t remember, but it, it, it resonated with me. We became friends and then, you know, now it almost seems like we’re in competition to out inspire the other. You’re always posting something that’s really inspiring and I’m always sharing it and saying, Daniel did it again. Um, but I, I just want our listeners to hear today. You, you do something amazing with your life. You’re a veteran and you in turn , um, ended that career, but then turned around and started helping veterans in really, really tangible ways . So if we, if you can tell us, introduce yourself, just tell us who you are and what you do. And then, and then we’ll start with your personal story.

Daniel: 5:55

Okay. Well, I’m Daniel , 55 years old. I did a little over 20 years in the United States air force. In fact, my first duty assignment was Albuquerque New Mexico. I spent there and fell in love with New Mexico. And , uh, that’s how I ended up meeting you is I was looking at property in the Santa Fe area and started following you on your realtor site and the property that you had. And then I’ve started following you on social media, and then we start connecting through there. So , um, Santa Fe is like Santa Fe house . That whole area is my go-to place for, to recharge my batteries. Uh, ever since I left there, I’ve always gone back , uh, either with my parents now, my wife , uh, and so forth. So , uh, and then I , you know, since then , um, like you were saying, I left the military in 2007 and been working with a few different non-profits and , uh, within the last year really started my own nonprofit , uh , to help other veterans and first responders.

Bunny: 6:56

So how did you, well, first of all, it’s so interesting to me when somebody chooses a career in the military, because it’s, I mean, it really is the ultimate. Um, I mean, it’s, it’s the ultimate giving back. Tell, tell me about how you made that choice. I’m really interested in that.

Daniel: 7:15

Joining the military in the beginning was a selfish choice. I joined because , um , I came from a very dysfunctional family as a young man. Uh, never really had a solid father figure. Um , my dad was then even , uh , a good weekend father. Um, my mom was very , uh , mentally and physically abusive towards me and my brothers and sisters. So actually joined the military to get away from home and grow up, to have a sense of , um, I can start my own life. And at that time I was , um, trying to go to college, working odd jobs. Uh , I was actually trying to join the Houston police department and got accepted, but the academy shut down because at that time in 86, the old Glen Cain and , uh, the C Houston kinda went bankrupt and had to shut down the academy. So my recruiter for the police pharmacy joined the military, get some experience. So I actually came in to get away from home, finished college and then go back. But I ended up doing four years and found a family , uh, the brotherhood and sisterhood that you don’t, you know, you have to , you have a common goal, you have a common mission. Um, you get , uh, treated very well if you do your job. Right. Um, and I loved the traveling. Like I said, my first duty time was Albuquerque love , New Mexico. Um, did a lot of outdoor activities while I was there. And , um, just photos is where I belonged and four years turned into 20 years.

Bunny: 8:41

And where it tell us some of the places you served, where were you deployed? Where did you end up?

Daniel: 8:45

Yeah , yeah, I was , uh , I was in Albuquerque and from there I deployed to the first goal for , uh , there’s a storm desert shield, me , and then I came back and then we went to Guam for two years. And then from grandma went to Fort hood, Texas, and then Fort hood , Texas. I went to Whiteman air force base and Noster Missouri. And then my last two years time, he was here in San Antonio, Texas arraigned off air force base. And I retired here in the area.

Bunny: 9:08

Well, I have to say, thank you, thank you for your service. Um, and, and so you joined the military to get away from, to get away from home. You said, but over time, did that, did the reason you stayed change and did your goals for afterwards change ?

Daniel: 9:26

Oh yeah. I fell in love with the mission. I fell in love with the sense of FA the military becomes a second family. Um, it becomes, you know, a routine it’s easy. You put on a uniform, you know, what your mission is that day, you know, what you’re, what you got to get done. Um, if you do the job right, you get rewarded. Um, it was just, I , in the sense of giving back , uh, every day, like I felt I was part of something bigger than myself , um, which as a child, it was always part of me. It was always, I was very sensitive kid and always had wore my heart on my sleeve and always tried to help others. So being part of that in the military, and not only doing my military job, but volunteering, like I was a big volunteer for big brothers and big sisters in, in , uh, in Albuquerque and also did special Olympics where we got involved with special Olympics and volunteered there. So it was always a part of me of sense of giving. Um, so that really tied into who I was or I am. And it just felt like a great, a great calling for me that I felt , um, it was like my new family, even though I was still close to my brothers and my sisters. Uh, but it was just, it was just a , uh , a new way to do long .

Johanna: 10:38

Um , similarly, My, my wife is a veteran too, and she says the same thing that , um, you know, being like , she misses it and doesn’t miss it at the same time, because being in the military was like, gave her a real sense of purpose. And like you said, the routine and always knowing like, kind of what your, what your goal was. And, and , um, she said, even now, sometimes it’s hard to find or feel like you have that same sense of purpose now. So have you been able to find that since you retired from the military, like another thing that’s driving you and your, your sense of purpose?

Daniel: 11:15

Yeah, I was very fortunate when I got close to retirement, I was starting to deal with a lot of medical issues on my own. And I started going to San Antonio military medical center here in San Antonio, Texas, and with the new Gulf war , uh, operation Iraqi freedom and operation during freedom alive. A lot of the injured service members were coming here to San Antonio. Uh , they have the number one burn hospital and then amputee ward . And so while I was going to rehab there, I’ve started meeting. A lot of veterans are coming back and I, early on in the war, I was asking them, you know , what do y’all get to get out of the hospital? And he said, not much so on my own, I’ve started getting them out to, to different events, to do things. And so my transition from the military to civilian life was a lot easier because I was still involved with veterans and veterans issues. So I was, I was going out and helping these young men and women , um, deal with what they were going through, not just the physical injuries , but the mental injuries, because that’s the ones that are harder to get past . I think the physical, you know, they, they give you all the equipment, their rehab and stuff like that, but there’s such a shortage of mental health providers. And , and I hate to say this, but the military looks at it, you know , let’s get him , let’s get him healed and let’s get them out. Let’s get him heal and get them out let’s process from mouth . And so a lot of them were sent home and they’re still dealing with the emotional baggage. And I ran into a lot of young men and women like myself, who, you know, joined the military to get away from home. And all of a sudden they’re right back at home and never healed from the dysfunctionality that they were dealing with in the first place. So you have that dysfunctionality on top of the military injuries and the , the psychological injuries. So it just compiles itself. And so trying to help those young men and women, for me, it was an easy, an easy transition for myself because I was still helping those. So I felt I have really a big sense. I had a bigger sense of purpose now, because now I could actually speak my mind to the military.

Johanna: 13:14

Yeah. And you had that empathy. You, you had been through it yourself, so you,

Daniel: 13:18

Right. And you know, in the military, they have been saying that, you know, shut up and color is like, okay, we appreciate your opinion, but we’re doing it this way. And now I had a bigger voice being away from the military. Cause I can say whatever I want. And so it was easier to help them transition through the VA system as well.

Johanna: 13:40

That’s and that’s , uh , that’s system is not easy.

Daniel: 13:43

No , no, it’s still not easy.

Bunny: 13:46

So funny that you brought that up, Johanna , because I was thinking about it as Daniel was talking about how, you know, he said he came from a dysfunctional family background and that’s, you know , it’s , I mean, Leasa’s was different, but she still had, there were difficult points in her childhood. And I, and so you, you, you grow up in a certain way, then you get in the military and like you said, there’s, there’s not a mechanism for helping you deal with your mental and emotional issues there. And I I’m, I’m curious, this is, this is not on our list of topics obviously, but there is a , uh , relatively high suicide rate.

Daniel: 14:24

Yes . People who, yeah . Who serve return from a difficult , um , deployment. Right. And that’s one of the reasons I started this nonprofit . We were trying to alleviate a lot of the issues veterans face , um, that they haven’t had to deal with. And unfortunately the quickest out , they , when they start thinking they’re a burden to their families, well , if I killed myself, they’ll be better off and that’s not, that’s not true . And so trying to change that mindset that no , especially for the older veterans and veterans have served like 10 years or more. You’re so used to this way of living in this way of giving back. And all of a sudden you’re thrown into civilian life and you’re like, you lose your camaraderie, you lose all your friends. You lose a sense of purpose. Because I mean, when I was in the military handled the million dollar budgets, I, you know, I handle , I had so much responsibility and then trying to find a job in the civilian life that has that sense of purpose and that sense of meaning and trying to transition into that is also hard. No, you get up in the morning, you know, you’re going to put on the uniform, you know what your, your duty is civilian life. You’re like, okay, where do I work today? And you know, you go to a job that you’re like, yeah , it’s just, it’s just a job besides it’s not that sense of family anymore. Um, so there’s a lot of compounding issues that veterans deal with with transition. And that’s what we’re trying to avoid is saying, okay, this chapter of your life may be closed, but you still have the rest of your book to write. Let’s start on the next chapter.

Johanna: 15:58

That’s huge. That’s such a , um, I just, from what you are saying, and from what I’ve heard, you know, that it’s such a needed service and , um, you know , uh , needed , uh , I guess, outreach for veterans. Like that’s so awesome that you felt called to do that because I think that’s amazing.

Bunny: 16:17

Well, I was just, I, and I , we can go to Johanna’s question first, but I just, I’d love to hear the story of like the very first person you met that you felt you could make a difference in their life. But , yeah. Can you recall that?

Daniel: 16:32

Yeah, he’s my best friend, my best friend. He’s my best friend. He’s like my son, I’m the godfather to both of his children. He just had a second child , um , kind of like the grandfather to them also, but , uh, JR Martinez and , and JR is pretty, pretty famous. You’re a wounded veteran , uh , got intact . He was on all my children then when season 13 of dancing with the stars. Wow. But when I met her , when I met JR, he was a 19 year old kid that was injured , uh, at the hospital and basically joined the military, also had dysfunctional , um, family life with his mom was raised by a single parent, but it was very dysfunctional. And he, he found his calling doing , um, motivational speaking. But when you got out of the military, he was like, what do I do with it? Now, who’s going to help me. And he was still dealing with the baggage of being physically injured, but more dealing with the psychological injuries and the baggage he brought in with him. And , um, one of the biggest changing points was me and JR went on a trip together and he was dealing with a lot of gr dealt with a lot of anger at the time , uh, anger issues, which a lot of veterans go through. And one night he was really angry and he wanted to fight. And I said, no, we’re gonna fight. You know, I’ll be right back. I didn’t take care of another veteran paying back to him . And I said , again, the truck, then let’s talk. And we started talking. I said, you know, what you need to do is you need to cry. No one’s ever told you, it’s okay to cry as a man and you need to cry. And he broke down and cried. And from there, it just, things started to evolve that, you know, I explained to him , people can help you, but you have to help yourself. You’re going to be the one that’s going to have to do this. You know, people are going to be there to guide you and lead you, but you’re going to have to do it. And JR. JR’s the one that got me. It’s funny how God works or whatever spirituality you are. It’s funny how it works is if you give back what you give back forward and meeting JR led me down this path, more of wanting to give back more and to make a change in people’s lives because I saw what he was going through and the changes that he was going through and his growth. And so , uh, and over 17 years of friendship, I’ve seen him go through everything. And he’s an amazing father. Now, a motivational speaker travels the country. And that that’s the person who has probably changed it the most.

Bunny: 18:54

Sorry Johanna I interrupted you. Cause I got so interested in the story piece, but I know you had somewhere you were willing to go.

Johanna: 19:00

No, no, I that’s. That was a better direction. I was just gonna say , um, just in general, just the stigma around mental health is just so , um, it’s so much harder in the military is kind of all I was going to mention, but guys kind of , I already mentioned that.

Daniel: 19:17

But that’s a great story about the mental health in the military. It’s like a big issue. You know, I give , uh, uh, Simone Biles , uh, she deserves a medal for what she did. She said, time out my mental health and my wellbeing comes first over everything else. And I can’t do this right now. And what she did at the Olympics is she deserves a gold medal for that period. I agree because she’s helping realize it’s okay to call a timeout . It’s okay to regroup and deal with things that some people don’t know what you’re dealing with and in the military. Unfortunately, it’s a sense of if you, if you go ask for help and it’s also, it’s also that way in law enforcement, it’s also that way with first responders , um, that you ask for help you, the weakest link, you know, you’re , you’re, you’re not helping part of the team. You just need to suck up, suck it up and do it. Um, and that’s so wrong, especially now with, with COVID going on. I worry about my daughter, my daughter graduated college and she’s a nurse and she works ICU here in San Antonio. And I do checks on her, Hey, how you doing? How are you handling things? Because right now there’s such a big COVID , uh, explosion with Delta and she’s right in the middle of the thick of it. I, you know, I worry about her cause I I’ve seen it with younger people, you know, in, in, in older people you’d have to, we need a buddy system. And I think that’s what was so great about Simone’s that she had that buddy system there. They said, Hey, we’re not going to be angry. If you can’t go, we’re going to be there to support you. And I think I have something in the military still lacks on is having that support. Yeah.

Johanna: 20:53

Just like you said, just having that , um, kind of safety net and allowing someone to say, it’s okay to talk about it. You know, you’re , we’re not going to think you’re weak or there’s anything wrong with you. Just, just kind of opening up that door a little bit can make the biggest difference. So it sounds like you’re doing that for a lot of people too.

Daniel: 21:13

I’m trying. Cause I, you know, I JR has helped me with my stuff, you know, by watching him grow. And then my daughter and I went through a bad divorce and still dealing with trying to reconcile with my parental issues. You know , my dad passed away not too long ago, two years ago and uh, trying to have closure with him. And in what I realize is you’re not going to always get what you want from the person that you feel that ocean , but you have to look at the whole picture of what they went through as a child. And so I have a lot of empathy for my dad and I forget him before he passed away. You know, having that closure with him, even though he couldn’t talk about it and didn’t want to talk about it. It was on myself to heal myself through it. Not, not on him. So it’s getting to people realize that you know, being angry all the time and hold on to anger doesn’t heal anything. Yeah , exactly.

Bunny: 22:07

Well, and I liked what you just said that it was on you to heal yourself. Um, I , um, I think you and I , I can’t remember who it was somebody last week posted something that says something about you , you know, real , just realize when you’re overwhelmed, you don’t have to quit. You just need to rest. And, and we don’t do, I mean, I don’t do it well enough, you know, we always feel like we’ve got to be in this headlong rush to achieve something else and we forget to rest. And it sounds like that’s what you’ve encountered. Yes.

Daniel: 22:42

It’s so true. And so true. You know, I always tell her that you’re no good to anybody unless you’re good to yourself first. You know , you have to take care of yourself first before you can help anybody else. If, if, if you’re running around trying to heal the world, but not healing yourself, you, you, you’re going to break. There’s a breaking point and you can’t do it all.

Bunny: 23:01

Right . So tell us about the first time that you did something really tangible, physical, you know, help somebody repair their home or D how does that work? When did that start?

Daniel: 23:13

So I met Jr at the hospital and I was doing things on my own and Jr was a spokesperson for a non-profit at the time. And he’s like, well, they’re trying to get up and start a , you need to help them out. So I went and met with one of the founders and started volunteering for them. Then it , when I retired, it ended up being a full time job. But , uh, some of the first things we did, we did , uh , which I thought was amazing. Back then, we did a thing called a road to recovery conference. And we brought , uh, veterans from around the country to Disney. And I Disney, we had the veterans, but not just the veterans , but their families, the wives and the kids, you know , and we also , uh , provided , um, therapy camp. There was another group that splintered off from them that is called camp hope. And they provided therapy for the kids. And just seeing that when we brought her up together and brought all the resources that were out there and , and guest speakers to in mental health speakers to help them start to recruit was probably the first thing that really changed my life has seen seeing that there’s, there’s so many people out there that are willing to help, but trying to connect the dots and bring them to, to veterans is the hard part is trying to get them to , to understand that there is help out there. But once again, no one can help you unless you reach out for help and getting the veterans to understand that because the hard part is most veterans won’t ask for help. The ones who would mostly ask for help is either the spouse or the caregiver may be their mother or father are the ones who are asking help for that veteran, not the veteran themselves. So getting the veterans to break down and say, okay, I need help with this. Where can I go? Is, is the biggest goal.

Bunny: 24:53

So we were talking about , um , people not wanting to ask for help. Um, I , and you know, I, I mean, that’s not just limited to the military. I think people are, there’s such a stigma , um , around asking for help when you need it the most. And that really is probably the time. And , and, you know, Johanna is more of the mental health expert than I am because she’s a social worker, but I do think that people tend to be afraid to ask for help because it’s a sign of weakness.

Daniel: 25:23

Well, you know, and unfortunately, especially on social media, if you go and ask for help, people start to chastise you right away. Well, what do you really need help for? You know, why aren’t you doing this and why are you doing that? You know, everybody wants to be an armchair quarterback and tell you how to do it. And, and sometimes you just need to bite the bullet and go, go do it. I mean, with, with veterans, you know, I push like on my social media and I don’t know if you’ve seen it. I always pushed the one 800 number for, for , uh, the VA. There’s a one 800 number you can call for help. There’s um, also other, other groups out there that are providing retreats, I always try to post those there’s retreats out there. So here here’s the location, call it, just call . Nobody needs to know you can call them directly, but there is help out. You just have to do it, you know? And it is hard. I think, I think the hardest thing is where people, people don’t want to peel back their own onion because they’re afraid of what they’re going to file a fine. And I think that’s , that’s the hardest thing is getting them to peel back their own onion and emit, Hey, this is an issue with me. I got to deal with it. You know, if you can get somebody to pull back their own onion, it becomes a lot easier, but it’s just getting them to that point.

Johanna: 26:35

That’s a good way to put it. Yeah.

Bunny: 26:37

Yeah. That’s a really great analogy. And you know, there is so much power in , um, the , the first time after I had cancer, the first time that I got in a room with other people that had, had lived through the same diagnosis as I had, it was like electricity. To me, there’s so much power in meeting people who have lived through the same trauma that you have and realize it . I mean, it’s, it’s empowering, but it also takes some of the power away from the trauma seems .

Daniel: 27:09

Yeah, no, it’s so true because you realize you’re not alone. You realize you’re not the only one going through this. You know, sometimes something happens to you and you feel like, well, it’s only happening to me. No one else. And so you ended up starting to isolate yourself even more because you’re like, no, one’s going to understand. And that’s the worst thing I always tell anybody , somebody always has it worse than you. You’ll be surprised. Somebody always has it worse than you. If you go, if you look, talk to people and join a group, you’ll find out that you’re going to be like, oh, I was pretty bad, but yeah, you know , Tom has it worse than I do. And you start to understand that, Hey, I’m not alone. You know? And , and , and I don’t wanna get into politics, but I think what’s happened also is we’ve become scared to talk to each other because everybody chastise you, you have an opinion nowadays, and we need to get past that as a country. We need to be there to help each other, you know, not, not harm each other. It’s

Johanna: 28:02

It’s really, you know, that sense of community, right? Like whether you’re a cancer survivor, a veteran, or a new parent or something, it’s, you need to find your, your community, your tribe, just for one thing to not feel so alone, to not feel isolated in what you’re going through. And then also, like you said, to , to find those people that are, you know, have been through the same thing, you have, have survived it, you know, maybe they have like advice or tips or, Hey, this helped me or this resource. So it’s so huge. And it’s, I mean, you know, could even be like anthropological, like this is how we are supposed to be as humans. We’re not supposed to be isolated or , um, you know, on our own or in front of a screen, like we need community, we need to be around people. So I think that’s something that, I mean, even, especially in the last year and a half, we’ve , it’s been hard to do. And so we need to kind of make the effort to find our people again

Daniel: 29:03

Totally agree.

Bunny: 29:04

And I, I want, I kind of want to shift gears just because I don’t, I want to give you ample time to talk about operation triage . So I’m, I’m going to read your mission statement and then I , I want you to tell us how that’s working and how we can help, but , um, operation triaged is mission, and that’s a , uh , nonprofit that you created is to provide emergency financial relief, mortgage-free homes and home remodeling to disabled veterans, first responders and active duty service members in an effort to get their lives back on track and become productive members of their communities. So I’m dying to know. I mean, we’ve talked a little bit about what you did when you retired, the nonprofit you worked for, and, and now tell us about operation triage, because that’s your own non-profit .

Daniel: 29:54

Yes. Yeah . What happened was the last nonprofit I worked for , um, they, their full concentration was on just building homes, but we were getting a lot of requests from veterans for, Hey, I need help with a wheelchair ramp, or I just need, where can I get a wheelchair? The VA is not providing me wheelchair, and I need a wheelchair. I can’t wait on the VA. And so I decided to split her off and just do my own thing to answer it . It doesn’t have to be a huge name , but just, he was small needs that changed their lives. Um, you know , I had a veteran , uh, one of the veterans I helped as a Vietnam veteran , uh, dealt with the agent. Orange was getting the run around with the VA. We finally got him his benefits he needed, and we got the VA to come in and put a ramp that he needed for his house. You know , they provide him a wheelchair and they provided him a scooter, but they hadn’t provided him a ramp. And I’m like, well, it doesn’t make any sense. Bureaucracy if you’re going to give them all this stuff and you can’t even get it into his house, I mean, it’s a simple fix. Let’s fix this. So we’ve become , uh , an advocate for a lot of the issues and it doesn’t cost us anything. Um, the other thing is , is trying to fix things that are needed, ACEP , that we can’t wait on the VA or wait for the bureaucracy to go through. We just got a request this week for a veteran that’s up in Pauline, Texas, outside of Fort hood. And the VA referred him to Scott and white, a local civilian hospital for surgery on his colon because they found a polyp, but he had to do surgery to remove part of his colon. He goes in and had an allergic reaction to anesthesia was in a coma for almost two months. And now I was in rehab down in round rock, Texas and VA is basically a told the family is , well, we didn’t do the surgery, so you’re on your own. And so we’re bring the member home to bring the member home. Some remodeling needs to be done for their bathroom and the master bedroom, the family can’t afford it. So we’re right now doing, looking for funds and people to donate products and materials to that project where we can bring those veteran home. And it’s things like that, that it just appalls me. It appalls me because as a military member, you’re made a promise that we’re going to take care of you . When , when, if you serve, we’re going to take care of you when you, when, when you’re done. And unfortunately, the system is geared towards not really taking care of you. You have to fight for everything that you want, and you have to fight to get your disability ratings and you have to fight to get them the equipment you need. And it shouldn’t be that way. It should be a lot simpler. And, you know, unless, unless a big trategy , uh , something big happens at the VA and is put on national news, then everybody pays attention to it. You know, a couple of years back, it was the waiting list. The VA was covering up. Certain hospitals were covering up the waiting list issue, and people were dying on waiting lists to be seen in hospitals for the head of hospitals could get bonuses. So, you know, unless something big, like that happens, then Congress, those money at the VA, but it would , they end up hiring is more administrators instead of more doctors, mental health professionals and people that can help get the benefits to the bedrooms . Um, and I’m not saying everybody at the VA is bad. It’s just, it is just a typical bureaucracy that shouldn’t be there and needs to be changed. So what we’re trying to do is help veterans at the lowest level of hospital. And like, I tell them, help me help you. You give me the information, we’ll go out and try to help you and get these things for you and get them done.

Bunny: 33:19

So you, I looked at your website and it, I mean, how, how do you raise funds? I mean, you’d have events. Do you, what , what exactly do you do to get dollars in the door? How can we help you?

Speaker 4: 33:35

Which I have no problem doing. Um, but we’re COVID last year it took a real hit that we were really limited on what we could do. So really hurt her. So this year we’re scrambling, we’re doing , uh , two fundraising events in Missouri. Their concerts are going on. Um, we’re looking at doing more fundraising down here in Texas. Um, but you know, we have some, some donors that are reconsidering their major donation this year, applying them to us. So we we’ve worked on with some donors. So , uh, we’ve got a little bit early . We’ve had wheelchairs donated to us that we’ve ended up re gifting to other veterans and, and getting them , um, the chairs are needed. We had a thing called a track chair. It looks like a wheelchair on tank wheels, and the chair can go anything. And you can go on, on beaches and go out in the woods and go up by lakes. We had a lady that donated that, and we got into a veteran who came to the city, that he was a farmer raised horses and had his farm, but he couldn’t go out there and take care of them. So, you know, living that normal life causes depression. But once we got him , the tractor here, he can go out there and do all the things he did before. And so things like that would just repurpose breeze , re purposing equipment has really helped a lot. So , um, you know, it doesn’t have to be a whole lot to change somebody’s life. It could be something small you’re selling right now. Everybody thinks, you know, a lot of people get , feel overwhelmed. Like, well, if I donate, I have to donate millions of dollars. I can make a difference. Now you don’t, you don’t, you could , it could be something so small to change somebody’s life. We’ve had kids though do bake sales, eliminates games and donated a couple, you know, couple of hundred dollars. And those a hundred dollars tests is like thousands of dollars where we can change somebody’s life with it.

Bunny: 35:18

Wow. So, so when you, I mean, it sounds like when you wake up every day , I mean, I feel like there’s gotta be a process that you go through that, that , um, I mean, this isn’t in a , you don’t just people don’t just show up having this sort of a grateful and giving spirit. How do you practice? I mean, what , what’s your thought process every day to get into the mode, the mindset that you need to feel like that every morning?

Daniel: 35:43

First thing I do is I thank God for another day, because now that I’m 55, I feel like I’m on the other side of the mountain. I know, I know 55 is like the new 35, but you know, I think about every day for another day , um, you know, I don’t take anything for granted every day is a, is a wonderful day. And you’ve got to look at , um, you know, I joke with my wife, you either got to have the glass half empty or half full, and I’m always the one with half full. I always try to find the positive in everything, you know , um, excuse my language, but you know, happens and you just have , it’s how you deal with it. You know, you have a choice. You can either let it overwhelm you and drop you to your knees. You can say, okay, that happened today. I’m going to learn from it and let’s move on and let’s , let’s deal with it. So I’m just grateful. I’m just grateful for a chance to be my daughter’s father for another day. Uh , my wife’s husband and another day of trying to help somebody else, I really believe God has built us to give we’re we’re . We, we get so much more out of giving. If you, if you give and you practice giving you give so much more out of it, you feel me ? I feel more accomplished. I feel like I , I feel guilty at times because I felt like I got more out of it than the person I’m trying to help. And, and I think if you wake up every morning with that ideas, I’m going to even smiling as somebody I’m going to smile at somebody today . And maybe that changes their life. If you start packing. So things like life gets a lot better for yourself. So I’m just grateful to have those chances to do those things every day.

Bunny: 37:15

That what you just said is so true. Every what you give to people. I mean, we, it seems to me that if I do one small thing for somebody, it’s like, I get things back 10 fold it’s um, you know, what, what you, what you put out there in the world comes back to you in bigger ways than you ever thought it could.

Daniel: 37:36

Oh yeah. Wow . I mean, one of the biggest things I’m most grateful is the friendships I’ve gotten from doing this. My two best friends are people that I started off just by being there for them. You know, you you’re there for them.

Bunny: 37:52

Well, tell us this Daniel, because I know that a lot of our listeners, they may not be veterans, but they may have one in their family. I mean, when you were talking about the difficulties, like getting disability, I know Johanna and Lisa have been through that journey. I mean, everybody has these difficult phases in their lives, but it does seem like it’s compounded somewhat for the veteran community. Um, what would you tell people that are trying to offer some sort of support or care community to a friend or a family member who’s a veteran?

Daniel: 38:25

Um, the biggest problem with veterans is they usually don’t. They have a hard time talking to non veterans. Like if you, if you, my wife has seen where I don’t really talk about my service at all. As soon as I get up around other veterans, you start telling stories and you start relating. And it doesn’t matter if the veterans are world war II, veteran, or a veteran that just served in Iraq. If you get them together, they can relate to each other. The age difference doesn’t matter. So the biggest thing is be patient with the veteran. You know, they might not tell you everything, but if you help them find, you know, a group like right now that COVID has gone a little bit better where they can, they can join , um , groups or forums, go and talk, find somebody that they feel comfortable talking with. There, there is resources out there and you just have to research for them. I know there’s a great place up by Taos . I forgot the name of it, but a , a retreat for veterans up there I’d have to find any , I could send it to y’all , but I have learned about it. So , um, there’s a lot of resources outside the government. You know, the government , I tell people don’t, you can’t rely on the government to do everything. So find those resources that are out there that are available for veterans. There’s a lot of sport , sporting events. There’s a lot of , um, outdoor activities. There’s a lot of trips that veterans can go on , um, just to find them some kind of reprieve to get back involved in things. Um, I know a bunch of veterans when they first came back, the first thing they turned to was drinking , uh, to deal with their pain and stuff. And then we ended up finding adaptive sports program for them and they’ve taken off with, and that’s become their new drug. The, the, the guy, you know , they thought they never could do sporting events again, because either they’re doubling in or a single amputee and come to find out, they can do sled hockey, they can do a hand bike racing and you compete. So it’s just finding that niche, help them find that niche. And the best thing is just the listen. You know what I mean? When I say, listen, really listen. Uh, unfortunately we have a bad habit of listening to try to solve the problem for the person. So we don’t hear, what’s actually being said, but if you practice the art of really just listening and let that person talk and digesting everything they’re saying , you can really help them .

Bunny: 40:33

Wow. And , and that seems like the sort of, I mean, it’s really important for veterans, but it’s also, I mean, it’s true for everybody else too. If you can, like Johanna said earlier, if you can find your niche, if you can find your tribe, if you can find the people that you trust, who have experienced life or trauma in the same way that you have, then , um, that’s just, that’s a huge step on the path to , um, better mental health. Am I right? Johanna ? Is that

Johanna: 41:03

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think that’s , um , what we’ve all been saying and I, yeah, exactly. I think that’s great advice, Daniel. I appreciate you sharing that. Um , and it sounds like, okay, so people can find you at it’s operation, triaged.org and find more about the nonprofit . And , um, we also put that link in our description. Um, and it sounds like my other question, but you kind of said, I heard you say that you helped somebody and in Kansas or Kansas city, so you’re not… So you’re helping people in , um , a wider area, not just in Texas, Right?

Daniel: 41:41

Yeah. Our main, because I’m in Texas and we’re in Missouri also. Um, that’s been our main focus, but we’re branching out to help. I don’t care. The veteran causes from Alaska where there’s something we can do or find resources for them . We’re here for them. We’re not going to turn them down. Um, and the thing I like about what we do is we don’t have a set program. We’re not just focusing on, like, if you go to certain groups or just, we will , we’ll only do home building. We can’t help . You are willing to do sporting events. No , w if we don’t, we don’t do it. We’ll find somebody that can help you to do it. We’re not going to just turn your way. There’s resources out there that will help you find the resources. But like I tell the veterans or, I tell the first responders, he goes to call, help me, help you. I’ll give you the resources, but you’re going to have to make the call. You’re going to have to do some of the leg work to get the help. You just can’t, you can’t sit by on the sidelines for your own recovery. You have to be part of the recovery. And that’s , for some people that’s hard for them to understand. They want you to do it all for them. And I’m like, ah , this is where you’re going to need some hard love. I can, I can lead you to it, but you’re going to have to do it.

Johanna: 42:45

Yeah, that’s awesome.

Bunny: 42:46

So, I mean, we’ve talked about some pretty heavy subjects, but I do want people to know, I looked at this event, you guys are going to do in Missouri on August 28th. You’ve got some great artists showing up as sort of a music festival. Am I right? Is it a day of music?

Daniel: 43:01

Yes, we’re in, we’re in Missouri. Yeah. Um, one’s outside of St . Louis and the other one is I’d have to look at it again. I guess . I don’t know the area too well. Um, our vice-president and his family, a great story. I met Matt Belcher and his family , um, where I was at the other organization. And when I decided to leave to do this , um, Matt and his family followed me, we’ve become very good, very good friends. And , um, so he got a group up there, mobilized and volunteers, and are putting on these shows so we can raise some funds to help with veterans. Yeah . We got a remodel there that we’re trying to do, excuse me, for a veteran. And his bed is a basement that was flooded. And I’m with dad where that’s a lie , that those funds are going to go to that. But anything left over will go to these other projects that we’re trying to get done. Uh, we have a veteran here in San Antonio that we’re trying to build them a new home. Um, and then plus the veteran that up in Fort hood right now that needs a total remodel of his , uh, bathroom and master bedroom. So we’re looking at that also.

Bunny: 44:09

So Daniel, we really want to help you make some money for operation triage . So we’re going to post links to the website, but I’m also going to go out on a limb here. I don’t know if anybody will care, but I would say that that , um , for the next 10 people who donate at least a hundred bucks, do you guys all mail them a signed copy of my book? Lifesaving gratitude.

Daniel: 44:34

Bless you .

Bunny: 44:34

No, I just think that’s so I , I don’t know if anybody wants a copy of my book, but I do know that people want to help your cause. So that’s really important. So may I offer that so ,

Speaker 4: 44:45

Oh God bless you. Yes. Thank you

Johanna: 44:49

Don’t sell yourself short mom, everybody wants a copy of your book that they’re listening to this podcast.

Bunny: 44:53

Well , I want you guys to raise some money because , um, you know, just like, I mean, the whole , the wheelchair ramp is so it’s so elementary. You’re meeting people where they’re at and you’re not putting up those barriers that a bureaucracy might, or, you know, the red tape that you have to go through. You’re just like, this is the need. And we want to do what we can to fill it. So that’s amazing.

Daniel: 45:21

That’s I wish we were doing that. People were trying to help. They can’t wait. They shouldn’t put the weight right there . Why , why are we going to make them wait almost a year to get their benefits? They deserve. They shouldn’t have to wait. You know, they , they serve , uh, you know, one thing people don’t understand is, is less than 1% of our population has served the United States. No , it’s the 1%, regardless of how you feel politically or whatever, these are the people that have stood on a wall said, I’m going to provide you the blanket of freedom. You’re going to sleep on it tonight. I give you the right to speak your mind, to, to follow your interests , to follow your dreams and not have to worry about somebody taking them away. So regardless of how you feel politically wise, these are people that have took, it took an oath to defend us against tariffs, foreign and domestic. So we should be able to all , all together , support them. Absolutely.

Bunny: 46:21

Well, that’s what we’re here to do, but we love, you know, we talk all the time. You know, one of our hashtags is this story save us. And I think your story is so inspiring, Daniel. I mean, you came from a home where you, you could have taken a completely different path and you could have made completely different choices. And instead today you’re changing the lives of people who I, you know, I just feel like it’s the ultimate sacrifice to give up 10 or 20 years of your life to defend your country. So , um, thank you for creating this life. That is such an inspiring story. And thanks for coming and joining us. Well, thank you all so much for having me.

Daniel: 47:04

Thank you for letting me spread the word, what we’re tying to do and change others. I owe y’all dinner when I come to , to the Santa Fe.

Bunny: 47:16

Let’s get back together in six months or so, and hear what else operation triaged is doing. We’re here to help.

Daniel: 47:21

Definitely. Okay .

Bunny: 47:23

Thank you so much . Thank you .

Johanna: 47:24

Yeah , definitely. Nice to meet you too .

Bunny: 47:27

That’s all we’ve got today. Friends. I want to thank you for joining the Lifesaving gratitude podcast with your hosts Bunny Terry , that’s me and my producer and assistant Johanna Medina. We feel like we’re in the business of sharing the stories that save us, and we hope you’ll share as well by letting your friends and family know about the podcast follow and like us wherever you listen. And please take the time to leave a review, whether it’s a stellar comment or a suggestion, we are open to suggestions all the time. Also follow us on Instagram @lifesavinggratitudepod. You can also follow me personally at BunnyterrySantaFe. You can sign up at my website at bunnyterry.com to receive weekly emails about how to become the ultimate gratitude . Thanks so much for checking in.

Today we’re going to talk to a special guest about how marketing and marketers can use gratitude to create business and connections with clients and also for themselves to create a really positive way to do their job. But first, I just want to thank you for being here and ask that you download the podcast if you’d like. And certainly subscribe wherever you listen to other podcasts. But enough about me and enough about the podcast. 

I want to introduce you to my special guest, who’s also a friend. Craig Cunningham is currently a realtor with Keller Williams, Santa Fe. And that’s how I met him. However, this is a recent career for him and he was, and correct me if I mispronounce the word, but you were a hotelier. Is that the way to say that?

Craig: Yes. 

Bunny: Yes. He’s spent 30 years in corporate sales and marketing. He’s traveled extensively. I’m going to let him tell you all the places that he’s been to, but he is the founder and principal of Cunningham + Colleagues marketing consultants. He was in the past the VP of marketing and quality for Seaport Hotels and World Centers and the VP of marketing for Core North America. So welcome Craig Cunningham.

Craig: Thanks so much for having me on your podcast.

Bunny: I’m excited. I know you have some great tips for all of our listeners. When I think about these podcasts, I always think about the people that are going to want the information we’re offering. I mean, we’re here to help people and we’re here to figure out how gratitude can make everyone’s life not just easier and simpler, but also fuller. So why don’t you start, Greg? Just tell us a little bit about yourself. Tell us how in the world you ended up in this completely different career? And yet the truth is we’re still just marketers first and realtors, second. Tell me a little bit about yourself. Tell our listeners.

Craig: Yeah. So, as you said, I’ve been in marketing and sales for more than 30 years. I actually started off with an advertising and PR agency and then had the good fortune to be hired by my hotel client at the time, Wyndham hotels. At that time it was a North American chain and it’s now international. 

But from then on, I was in the hotel business. It’s definitely a career where if you are not focused on client service and the whole concept of gratitude, you’re not going to be successful. I always thought of our job as just surprising and delighting our guests and making them feel like they chose the right hotel to be with. And so it was always about waking up every day and saying, “What can I do to make somebody’s day and to give them a great experience?” And, of course, to do this you have to be grateful because they opted to choose your hotel over the million other choices that they had. 

So when I retired from the hotel business two years ago, I was trying to figure out what else I wanted to do with my life. I started doing more volunteering. I volunteer with Kitchen Angels here in Santa Fe to deliver meals to people who are not able to leave their homes. But I also started thinking of whether I wanted to do something else from a professional standpoint and the real estate business seemed like a natural extension, because it’s all about client service. You have to figure out ways to make people feel like they’ve made the right choice in working with you. So it’s all about being grateful every day and figuring out what can I do to help them today. How else can I extend what I’m doing for them in a way that they will appreciate and know that I appreciate them. So that’s what it’s really all about, because of course they could work with a million other other people

Bunny: Right. And let’s talk for just a second. Don’t you think that marketing has changed over the 30 years that you’ve been doing this? I mean, it seems to me that when we were kids, which was back before the crust cooled, we were sort of marketed at. Just talk for a minute about how marketing is different now than it was 10 years ago or 30 years ago.

Craig: It’s funny, because I was going to say the exact same thing. Back in the day, you were running a TV ad or a radio spot or a print ad and it was passive in that you just presented the information, unless you were direct sales. But really with the advent of so much digital media, you are instantly able to forge a relationship with customers through social media, through Facebook, Instagram, where you’re having a dialogue with them from the very beginning. This allows you to work in a much more personal way and to be able to find out much more quickly how you can serve those people. 

So I think it’s changed completely. Before you just sort of put it out there into the ether and hope that something worked, and now you’re able to engage. And I’ve found that so much in real estate where I’m getting emails from folks and then it evolves from the email into a phone call or a zoom call or something like that instantly. I think that’s so much better for both people. Especially for somebody like me who wants to find ways to engage with people and to be of service to them, it makes it a lot easier and more rewarding.

Bunny: I just think about the ways that I connect with my clients. It’s as if you’re somehow conveying to those people that you’re grateful that they showed up.

Craig: Yeah, exactly. I mean, my whole thought is that it’s not a transaction, it’s a relationship. And that relationship can be multifaceted. Once you’ve sold them a house or sold their house, I like to think that we’ve formed a friendship and a bond and that relationship is going to continue. And honestly, I don’t even care if I ever get another piece of business for them. Now think of them as friends. I want to have them to my house for dinner or go have coffee or something like that. 

I think that kind of thing that makes a difference for people in wanting to work with me.  It’s coming from a position of wanting to be of service to them and wanting to make them happy and finding the right solution for them. I’m working with some first-time-buyers right now and I kind of feel like they’re my kids. It’s about, okay, how can I really help them with this? And they’re grateful for the counsel I’m able to give to them, and I’m grateful for the opportunity to work with them. So it’s very rewarding. I think if you approach business relationships in the same way as you would with your friends, it’s a win-win situation for everybody.

Bunny: Well, talking about those first-time home buyers, I mean, that’s one of my favorite deals. You never make the most money from those transactions, but I’m so grateful to be reminded that we are providing the American dream when we’re selling real estate. Yeah. It’s amazing. It’s my favorite experience.

Craig: Yeah. I mean, for somebody to have their first home and to be excited about how they’re going to decorate it and what they’re going to do. And with this young couple, seeing them excited when they see a house brings out all my empathy and makes me want to really go the extra mile for them to make sure they find the right house at the right price for them. And then I just never want to stop. So then it’s like, “Okay, now I’m going to find this person for you to do the plumbing, and I’m going to find this person, etc, and I’ll be with you with you  to help explain things.” I just want to really continue to be of service.

Bunny: I talk a lot, especially on my blog, about Judy Camp, who was one of my first real estate mentors. She was a great friend and Linda Gammons partner for a long time before she passed away. But Judy Camp always says, “If you come from contribution, you can’t help but be successful.”

Craig: Yeah. I mean, just as I was saying, you can’t think of it as a transaction. I think, coming from contribution, how can I help you? How can I make this a better experience? How can I make this work? Because, especially in a real estate transaction, it can be stressful. It’s the biggest financial transaction for the majority of us. So how do you take the burden and the pressure away from them and sort of guide them through the process? I just think the main thing is that it’s much more fun, whether you’re doing volunteer work or in business, to wake up every day and figure out how I could make it fun for somebody else. Because then it’s fun for you and it gets you excited and passionate about what you’re doing.

Bunny: Well, it sounds like our big “why’s” are really similar. I certainly don’t want to put any words in your mouth, but it sounds like your big “why” is just to make the life of the people you come in contact with better.

Craig: Yeah. Of course making money is nice, but there are lots of ways to make money. It’s more about whether you are getting energy from it. And I think you really get energy when you’re working with someone and trying to figure out how you can help them, how you can make their day better, how you can make the service that you’re providing better. And also just doing things that saying, “What about if I do X, Y, Z?” and they’re  like, “Oh, you’ll do that for me?” And I’m like, “Of course.”

I have another set of clients where the transaction was fairly complicated and we were looking at lots of properties. Coming from a corporate background, I love to do spreadsheets and PowerPoint presentations—things like that. And so after about the third thing we had to do, they’re like, “Oh, how are we going to organize all these bids?”  And then one of the guys said to the other guy, “Well, Craig’s going to do a spreadsheet for us. He’s probably already got it done.” So it’s that kind of thing where you’re looking for ways to make their experience better.

Bunny: So this is always a funny question for me to ask, because I have such a loose gratitude practice other than just waking up in the morning and saying, “thank you, thank you, thank you,” and then writing things down, but do you have a practice that you follow that helps you both in your business and your personal life?

Craig: Well, since I came into real estate with Keller Williams, which focuses a lot on being servant leaders and helping people, I’ve gotten into the habit of writing three things I’m grateful for that day. It could be that it’s a beautiful day or a dog or my partner or the opportunity to help somebody or the coffee’s really good that day, but waking up and appreciating what you have in your life is a good way to get in a good mindset for the rest of it.

Bunny: Oh, absolutely. Something I always say is that we kind of rewire our brains. We do. We create new neural pathways every time we say that we’re grateful. So in terms of nuts and bolts, is there a way that you let your clients know? I mean, I find that there are a lot of young people, young entrepreneurs or people who are new to business, who forget how to tell their clients how they’re grateful for them, even if it’s a line in an email. Do you have something that you do specifically over and over?

Craig: I think for me, it’s maybe more in the actions. I think of “This is really going to be helpful if I do this or if I provide this information.” I think it’s always in my voice and the way that I write. I try to always communicate openly and in a friendly and conversational manner. But then I also think “It would be really cool and really helpful if I did X , Y , Z.” I created a whole PowerPoint just on the neighborhoods in Santa Fe, because if you’re out of town it gets confusing. And that came out of a client saying, “Well, I don’t really know the neighborhoods.” And I thought that this would be a great tool for them. So I created it and then I was able to use it with others. 

So I think for me, maybe it’s sort of on the fly. I used to say in the hotel hotel business, “How can I make this a wow experience?” Because the other way to think about it is that every relationship is with people. When you’re in a service business you’re really in the business of creating memories. You can create good memories or you can create bad memory and it’s much more fun to create good memories.

Bunny: And that just comes from a spirit of generosity. I mean, you obviously want this to be the best real estate experience they’ve ever had.

Craig: Right. Right. I’m very grateful for the people that have helped me along the way. I’ve been very fortunate in my career to always work for people who were concerned about my career development and my personal development and became dear friends. And I’ve had a couple of bosses that have hired me twice in two different jobs. So I’m always grateful for the things that other people have done for me. 

So then I want to pay it forward. When I came to Keller Williams and I was introduced to the team here, there was so much openness and willingness to share and help and support. It has been fantastic. What strikes me the most is how grateful I am for what other people have done for me. And how do I pay that back?

Bunny: I mean, this is not a podcast to plug Keller Williams. It’s really more to talk about mindset, but the place where I learned it was sitting in that training room and learning that my mindset was the secret sauce. I mean, that’s the success piece, right?

Craig: Yeah, exactly. It’s not just about production and everything. It’s about weight and having a sense of gratitude and contribution and a sense of abundance. And I don’t mean that in a monetary way. It could be abundance in your health or your friends or all of that kind of stuff. And I think back to you. Your experience with cancer was far worse than mine, but I did have prostate cancer about nine years ago. Everyone I worked with during that entire time when I was going for radiation every day for 10 weeks was so supportive. And then on the last day of radiation, there was this very important meeting, and everyone knew it was my last day.My whole team had a celebration for me on my last day. That was turning something that was obviously a challenging situation into something where I knew they really cared about me and supported me.

Bunny: Wow. I’m interested to hear how your mindset was in the middle of that? 

Craig: I’m just by nature, an optimistic person. So even though it was scary, I felt like I was in good hands from a medical standpoint and I just felt like I was gonna beat it. I had done the education that I needed to and then it was really about having a positive mindset. 

This is probably too much information, but I’ll say it anyway. You’re doing the radiation stripped down to your boxer shorts. And so I jokingly put this Facebook thing about the fact that I needed a new pair of boxer shorts for every day. And people started sending me underwear—different pairs of boxer shorts for every day. So while I was sitting there in the big machine, where you’re sort of in there and it’s buzzing and scanning and all that kind of stuff, it got to be kind of a joke with the techs:  “Oh , what’s he going to be wearing today?”

Bunny: I love that.

Craig: That was a way to keep my spirits up. And also during that process, I really learned how to be very focused. I was in a waiting room with people that were going through, frankly, worse things than prostate cancer. Don’t get me wrong, prostate cancer is pretty serious. It is. People die from it. But I was seeing so many other people that were having a much more challenging time than I was. And we became a family. We all bonded together during that process, because we were all waiting, sometimes for an hour. So it’s things like that. And also things like the kitchen angels service, where it helps reboot you every day for how grateful you should be in your own life and grateful for the opportunity to help other people.

Bunny: Right. There are tons of people who do get what a gift it is. People who don’t even have a specific gratitude practice, but at least an attitude every day that you’re going to figure out something. I just wrote a blog post on limiting beliefs and one of the things that I wanted to convey is that we get to choose every single moment how we view the world. And maybe for somebody out there who’s brand new in business or who’s starting a new business. I just read a statistic that said that the entrepreneur demographics are changing. And now like 48% of new entrepreneurs are over 50. So hooray for the old people! 

But I know that there are people out there right now who are thinking, “Well, I’m not any good at marketing. I’m not any good at that piece of it. I can sell stuff, but I’m not good at the marketing stuff.” I’ve got to tell you, I’m married to a guy who doesn’t believe in self promotion because he came from a generation when you played down your assets, instead of being grateful for them and talking about them. So I’d love to hear what you have to say to somebody who has that limiting belief that they can’t market. And they can’t promote themselves.

Craig: You know, we could all market ourselves, and we do it every day in our interactions.  Whether we think of it as marketing or not, we’re marketing ourselves all day long in how we react and treat other people. The thought I had as you were talking about your husband thinking self-promotion sounds like a dirty word is that it doesn’t have to be you talking  about “me, me, me” and “I did this million dollars in revenue.” This is kind of a turnoff in some ways, because you’re talking about yourself. But if you’re talking about how you can help somebody else and how you can provide a good experience for them with your information and knowledge, you’re not talking about yourself in that context. You’re talking about how you can be of service. I think that’s a much easier way for a lot of people from a generation where we weren’t really supposed to be talking about ourselves.

Bunny: Well, it was pre-social media. Our face wasn’t out there. We just weren’t trained to tell people, “Here’s the reason you should hire me instead of the other person.”

Craig: Yeah, exactly. I mean, now we’re all our own brands on social media. But I think that rather than saying to somebody, “Here’s why you should hire me versus somebody else,” you should just talk about how you can be of service in what you do in an authentic way. Then people are more likely to want to work with you, because you’re radiating a sense of positivity and an interest in them. And they’re not thinking that you just look at them as a transaction and then you’re onto the next person.

Bunny: I frequently use with my marketing coaching clients the example of a dinner party. If you went into a dinner party (and this is for people who are just beginning in whatever business they’re in, especially if they’re self-employed), you wouldn’t simply walk in, take your coat off and say, “Hey, I’m selling something, come and talk to me.” Right? I mean, that’s what you don’t want to do with marketing. You want to start by building a relationship. Can you talk a little bit about that? 

Craig: I think it goes all the way back to Dale Carnegie’s How to Win Friends and Influence People. People do like to talk about themselves. And so the first thing is you should be listening. That was one of the first things I learned in marketing client service. You need to ask questions and learn from your clients. Focus on what they need, as opposed to talking about yourself. You really want to establish a dialogue with them about their wants and needs and hopes and fears and everything else. Then you can talk about how you can address them. But nobody wants to go in and all of a sudden have you sit down and say, “Here’s my PowerPoint about me and what I’ve done.” It should be more of establishing, from the very beginning, a relationship of openness with folks. Then, after hearing from them, you can say “Well, here’s how I think I can you and here are some ideas that I have that I could share with you.” So I think a key thing is really listening from the very beginning.

Bunny: I even found that to be helpful when I used to first go on listing appointments. I was so nervous that I would sit down and I would immediately try to book an appointment. You know, if you’re not in real estate, a listing appointment is just like sitting down with a prospective customer. I would be so nervous in the beginning and really coming from a place of scarcity where I thought, “If I don’t get this listing, I’m not sure I can pay the rent next month.” And if you’re coming from a place of scarcity, you’re likely to self-sabotage. But that’s such good advice because things changed when I finally learned how to sit back and listen: “I’m here to help you. Tell me what it is that you need. Talk to me.” It’s so powerful to give a client time to talk to you. And I think people forget to do that, right?

Craig: Yeah. And I think sometimes we do it because we’re afraid. What I’ve learned so much over the years in business working with people is that people are terrified of silence, so they will immediately start talking. If there’s a second of silence, you jump in and start babbling. Lord knows I do it. But if you just let somebody talk and let it sort of sit there for a second and not just try to be filling in all the time. It drives me crazy when people are doing that. It’s much better if you can have the client talk and then ask some more questions and then be warm and reflective about it. Back to the Dale Carnegie thing, I think one of his first points was if you’re at the dinner party, ask people about themselves. Most people do like to talk about themselves. So ask them and don’t just start talking about yourself. 

Bunny: I think that even people who would say, “I don’t like to talk about myself,” really do want somebody to ask them and listen to them.

Craig: Yeah. And it’s not just asking them to go on and on. It’s more meaningful questions about, for example, why they decided to move here. Just those kinds of questions that get them thinking. Growing up in materialistic Dallas, the joke was that the questions at a party were like, “Where do you live? What do you do? What do you drive?” And so it’s not questions like that. It’s asking them more about their life experience,

Bunny: You just brought me to another completely different point, which is for any realtors out there listening: I think it’s really important to convey to your clients how grateful you are for where you live. I mean, if our lifestyle is such a selling point, don’t you think you should share that?

Craig: Oh, yeah, exactly. I mean, living in Santa Fe there’s so much beauty. I’m looking out my window right now at the beautiful blue sky. When I leave my house in the morning and I see the mountains, and then when I’m coming home at night and the sun is setting over the mountains and I see all the different colors and everything, it’s just breathtaking. It’s great to live in such a great and wonderful environment and in a place that is very spiritual, going back with the native Americans—respect for the earth and nature and all of those things—I think it does help center us more than a lot of other places.

Bunny: How do you convey that to your clients? I know you’re doing something really cool online that’s different from some other realtors.

Craig: Well, I’m not just posting on my Facebook page,” Hey, I just sold this house or just sold that house.” Well, that’s great. But I’m more talking about new experiences in Santa Fe: new restaurants, or a new place to go hiking, or something exciting that’s happening at one of the museums or things like that—enthusiastically talking about the experience of living in Santa Fe. And if down the road, by the way, you’re looking at this stuff and you decide you want to buy a house here, I would love to help you. But it’s more about conveying the reason why we all want to live here

Bunny: And tell us about your blog, because I think it’s amazing.

Craig: So I created this blog, which is called Santa Fe Scenes. It’s that same kind of thing where it’s just talking about having fun in Santa Fe. One of the things was, you know, we’ve got the old Santa Fe trail and we’ve got the old Pincus trail, but did you know that we had a Margarita trail and a Chocolate trail? Stuff like that. Just being whimsical about it and talking about some of the things are unique about the city and sharing my own passion for Santa Fe. I was very fortunate to be able to do a lot of international travel for my job. I was grateful for the opportunity that I was given to see places that I wouldn’t have seen otherwise from Bogota to Sao Paulo and Rio de Janeiro and Beijing and places like that. So I’ve always been enthusiastic about travel and now living in such a beautiful place like Santa Fe, I want to share that enthusiasm with people.

Bunny: And you’re getting some good feedback on that I bet, right?

Craig: Yes, I am. I’m getting good feedback on it. It’s been a wonderful thing to reconnect with friends who are saying, “Good for you, you old dog! You’re back out there trying something new.” Because whenever someone says, “Oh, you’re a new realtor,” I say, “Well, I’m an old new realtor. I’m 61 and I’m starting this for the first time.” But it’s been great from that perspective and the support that you get from your friends. Then people are saying, “Oh, well, I know somebody who might be interested in sending you that information.” I think that’s one of the positive things that social media has done where we’ve been able to reconnect with so many people that we might have completely lost touch with.

Bunny: Oh yeah. I did a post not very long ago about how grateful I was, and it was in the middle of all the fear over Facebook and Twitter. And I just said that it’s such a great platform for reconnecting with cousins that I haven’t seen since I was six. I mean, I just turned 60. I’m an old dog and this is a new trick for me, but I think that if you use it the right way, it’s a real gift. I also think there are so many realtors, like you said, who just post either pictures of houses that they have listed or their accomplishments. And I think they’re really missing an opportunity.

Craig: Yeah. Because then you’re just talking at someone. You’re not sharing information and excitement about things with them. People don’t want to look at that stuff. They want to look at things like the fact that there are like six great chocolate tiers in Santa Fe. And then the next time I’m in town, I want to go to each one of them. Or discovering an amazing new hiking trail or a beautiful image of a shop window or a piece of art or something like that. 

Bunny: Yeah, it’s so much better than “I just listed this house at 123 main street. Don’t you wish you owned it?” Exactly.

Craig: Exactly. I think more people would react to it. I’d really like to have some of that green chili chocolate over at The Chocolate Smith or whatever. It’s much more interesting than a picture of a kitchen that has granite countertops. Oh my goodness.

Bunny: And, you know, Craig, I found that people will call me and they’ll say, “Well, I’ve been following you on Facebook for two years. And I feel like you’re my best friend. I think you’d be the right person to show me around and help me find a house.” And I bet that’s happening to you too.

Craig: Yeah, exactly. It’s funny, you mentioned that. One of the people I’ve been mentoring told me a story about how she posted a lovely picture of herself and then somebody called her and said, “I feel like I already know you because you just look like a nice person and I feel like I can trust you.” I think also that it’s our eyes and our smile and everything that conveys so much of what you’re talking about. If you have a spirit of gratitude and service and a sense of abundance, not scarcity, it shows in your face, your eyes, your smile, and your whole persona.

Bunny: Well, we’re going to have to wrap up here in a minute, but I would love to hear if you have just three great tips that you would give to somebody who feels kind of stuck in their marketing. It could be what you’ve learned in 30 years or in the last three days, whatever it is.

Craig: I think one is changing your question from “How do I market myself?” to “What can I do for this client?” or “What can I do that’s going to excite the people? How can I make them feel appreciated and valued?” And this can work in cases where you’re actually working one-on-one with a client or cases where you’re trying to figure out how to promote what you’re doing. How do I find ways to surprise and delight people? So I like to do that with social media buys, where you come up with quirky, little things to talk about that are authentically Santa Fe or a funny picture of my dog or something like that. You want to put a smile on people’s faces. And social media gives us so many opportunities to be able to do that in ways that we couldn’t before. So the main thing at the end of it is to put your client first, and then I think everything else will come from there.

Bunny: You’re absolutely right. I think as long as your passion is helping people, then success is just a natural by-product of that.

Craig: Exactly. People feel that energy and then they want to tell their friends about you.

Bunny: What I’ve found is that people want to be able to trust somebody, especially in this business where they’re making possibly the biggest purchase of their life.

Craig: Right? I’m thinking back to these younger clients. We were touring houses, and they were interested in one particular house and I was like, “No, I’m not going to let you buy this. This is not the right move.” And I think all of a sudden they’re like, “Wow, he really cares. He’s not just thinking ‘Tick tock, tick tock. We’ve seen three houses.’” This is not House Hunters International where there are the three properties and you have to buy one. So again, it’s not a transaction. It’s a journey. It’s a relationship.

Bunny: I think that’s the most important tip for somebody to take away. Whether you’re selling widgets or earrings or house cars or houses, this is not a transaction. It’s a relationship. We want people to trust you and come back over and over. I don’t know how you can love your job if you’re not doing it the way we’re doing it.

Craig: Yeah, exactly. And have fun with it. We get to meet interesting people all day long. We get to see things. We get to use our own creativity to express ourselves. I know there are people that are in jobs that don’t have that. But I also read things about  the janitor in an elementary school who takes real pride in what they do, and they are going to do the best job that they possibly can. So I think in almost everything, you can come at it with a mindset of “How can I make this a great experience for me and for others?”

Bunny: That’s great stuff. Tell us where people can find you and where they can find your blog.

Craig: Well, probably the most fun thing I’m doing is the Santa Fe Scenes blog. 

Bunny: Okay. And we’ll share that on the information page for the podcast. And then, of course, if people want to buy a house from you, they can find you through there?

Craig: Yeah. All my information is on there. So one stop shop.

Bunny: Craig, I’m so excited that you were here. This was fun. I think we could do it again.

Craig: Yeah. Yeah.

Bunny: Because I think this is the place where people get stuck. People who are self-employed get stuck in this part. And so I think there’s a lot of stuff that we can talk about.  But I’m of course really grateful that you agreed to talk with us.

Craig: Oh, thanks. It’s been a lot of fun. I appreciate it. 

Bunny: And to everybody else, thanks for being here. This is once again, the Lifesaving Gratitude podcast. I’m Bunny Terry. You are welcome to go to my website if you’d like to learn more about me and about buying my book, which is all about gratitude and how gratitude helped me kick stage four cancer’s ass. And we’d love to have you follow us and subscribe on spot Spotify, Apple, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Thanks so much, Craig.

Craig: Thank you. Next time.