The Gratitude of Finding the Happiness Blueprint: Tiffany Nguyen

Bunny : 0:01

Hi there and welcome to the lifesaving gratitude podcast. I’m Bunny Terry , and I’m joined by my co-host and producer. Johanna Medina. This week, we have a special treat for you. Tiffany Nguyen is a spiritual life coach, and she helps a lot of people, especially busy professionals achieve what she calls, reconnecting with their truth and living authentically. But what I can tell you about Tiffany is that through life experience, even though she’s young, she’s figured out that , you have to change your thought processes and you have to look at the patterns in your life and figure out how to transform your life at its very root. She came up, she immigrated to United States at a very young age and 16 in fact, and found that her biggest enemy in life was loneliness because she didn’t speak any English as well as her perception of herself. You know, when we talk to Tiffany, we get the idea that she felt like she needed to be an Uber-achiever at the same time that she didn’t feel particularly adept or as , she says there was a long time in her life that her brain and her heart were not connected. And as we know, from the other guests that we’ve had, that’s essential. And she came up with it, in the midst of getting a doctor of pharmacy and becoming a Tibetan meditation master. She also created something called the happiness blueprint. Tiffany is quite a force and we’re going to include resources where you can check out the links to her website and find out a little bit more about her. But I think you’re going to find this podcast, especially fun and refreshing. It really is. As, as her , one page press release, touts her , abilities. She really has figured out how to achieve inner peace in the midst of a very busy daily life . So stick around, especially stick around to the very end where she outlines the happiness blueprint. We’re so excited that you’re here. Thank you for listening. Thank you for subscribing for rating and reviewing us wherever you listen to podcasts. And thanks for checking in. So we’re here today with a special guest, Tiffany Wynn . And I said that correctly, right? Tiffany? Yes. Okay. And , um, Tiffany is somebody that we connected with online primarily because she is, you know, she’s she created something that, that, that immediately caught our eye called the happiness blueprint. Um, we like to talk here about life-changing and life-saving gratitude, but it’s also important to , uh , not to be , um, toxically positive, but to be mindfully positive. And Tiffany, it just seemed like you were a great fit for this podcast. I’m so excited to visit with you.

Tiffany N.: 3:51

Thank you for having me on

Bunny : 3:53

Well, we’re, we’re um, we’re just excited that you made time for us to record this, but you have a really fascinating story, a fascinating origin story of how you came to this. Can you tell our listeners a little bit about who you are why we’re here today? Why you’re here today?

Tiffany N.: 4:13

Sure. So I am Tiffany and I’m a spiritual life coach and also a full-time practicing pharmacist . And I’ve been doing this for quite a few years. I mostly on my business , the spiritual side, I help people to reconnect with this truth and by helping them tracing their thought patterns and figure it out , gathered getting through the confusions and reconnect them with the truth. And in doing that, they tend to find the happiness and the peace of mind and the inner peace as they were looking for on the way. So that’s has been very fulfilling and I’m here to talk about anything that you guys want, the philosophy, my philosophy of visitors and how I do and work I do.

Bunny : 5:09

Well, you know, I , I know that people really connect with stories. Tell you immigrated to the United States at a very young age, right?

Tiffany N.: 5:19

Yes. I came to the U S at the age of 16 by myself. And , uh, I would not recommend that.

Bunny : 5:27

Tell me about that. Did you just re most 16 year olds say I’m going to immigrate to a new country? How did that come about? Did you just make up your mind one day with that? Did you have family here already or

Tiffany N.: 5:41

So it’s actually very popular in a developing country to decide to study abroad to get a better educations. So in Vietnam , my family was okay financially, we kind of middle class and I was doing well academically. So even way longer than that starting all the way in middle school and that , school and family already was kind of gearing me to , prepare to study abroad. Generally because the higher education is much better either in Europe or America than in Vietnam, i t’s just that the degree g oing t o be more valuable. And so it w as quite popular. So I w asn’t very s hocked or s urprised. What is shocking was t he U S g ave me the visa before a European country because I, because I didn’t know English, so that was one of the surprise. And, but I do have an aunt in Colorado, so I w as like, yeah, sure. My family felt more comfortable if I go to a country and have a relative, there i s t hat of a country that I have zero family r elative. So that’s why I c onsider us, what a 16, during high school and where the USA sure. Let me, let me, u h, e xperience the u s. And I was figuring it couldn’t be that bad. Good. I saw some u s movie and it was, seemed like everybody was partying up here a nd i t w as f airly g ood a t b eing a teenager. Like, y eah, that sounds great. I don’t have to study a lot, e verybody h ere to party all the time and everything d idn’t work out. It wasn’t like the movie and I was not even asked t o do any research. So.

Johanna: 7:34

What year was that when you came to the US?

Tiffany N.: 7:38

It was , uh , like 2006.

Johanna: 7:42

Okay. I’m just trying to think, like, you know, where were we in that time or how things are going?

Tiffany N.: 7:49

It was , I mean, when it came to US, it was very much a shock, first of all, for the cultural shock. And second of all the language barrier was really difficult because one of my biggest fear was loneliness. And because of the language barrier, I cannot communicate and I become very isolated and people for my first year in the US, in that area, there wasn’t a lot of color people in the high school. And , so people thought I was mute and deaf because I did not communicate at all because I didn’t understand anything. So it was pretty rough, it was starting my , ” dark night of the soul” kind of experience. So it forced me to become even more isolated and it pushed me to have a toxic coping mechanism by just trying to be busy. And I would just spend time with anyone willing to spend time with me and that’d become quite toxic. Eventually life did get better and I eventually learned English and culture , moved to sunny, Florida to pursue my doctorate degree and life did get better, a lot better. But I never actually deal with all of that emotion. I became very good at compartmentalize emotions and just focus on a goal and just go for it. So very high achieving a tree and it came down to on it. Wasn’t like came crashing down on me. Like I don’t have to be like a wake-up call one day. It was more gradual. It just over time, it builds up this general dissatisfaction at life and more and more. I wish I was very confused when I seem to have to check off all the boxes, like all the achievements that I wanted to do, Hey , have a career, good career prospect . And I was engaged and I was just miserable and I couldn’t have figured out why. And it’s came to a head, one day, this very casual day. It was just very one small moment. I was lounging around , after an exam and , my best friend, which I mentioned just commented that she wished she has a relationship like mine. She said , oh , it was so great . You , are always so a lovey-dovey , everything seems to work out great. And I was just laughing that I wasn’t that great. I don’t know, you’re talking to wow . And then I just laugh it off that I have cold feet. But it was that moment that my best friend would look at me very honestly and asked me why. And eventually I broke down and told her about all of my dark night of the soul experience and how I got into a very unhealthy relationship. And I thought, I was just a terrible person. And I were just waiting for the other shoe to drop. I was waiting for something to happen, bad karma to come back and buy a house , or feel like I have to earn the happiness a lot. I don’t really trust anything. And it was a vulnerability that was beautiful because she reciprocated, she also shared her own path , which to become very similar. But what stuck out was we both believe each other deserve the best happiness, we just couldn’t believe it for ourselves, but we believe the other deserve it. And several months later, one I was contemplating while driving on the long drive alone, then I have the light bulb moment that if I switched place with my best friend and she did exactly everything I did, I would never even thought less of her never consider it. And so I realized I was too harsh on myself and I never actually forgive myself for any kind of mistake I did in the past. And I would just stuck there. So that once I did, so self-forgiveness really trigger , all of my inner journey. And that was the huge starting point for me. And after that, it was easier to don’t judge don’t be in denial and face the truth of what I really feeling and what was really going on. And so I broke off the engagement and really move forward, like to truly live to fully and honestly, to how I feel. And what I think is, has been quite, quite a dramatic change , um, on the inside to where those few years

Bunny : 12:45

That, you know, that’s kind of a recurring theme that comes up is , we’re always our own harshest critics. And , it makes me think of our friend Istvan who said, you know, he had to learn to forgive the people in his family. He had a family background that was rather harsh, but he also had to learn at some point to forgive himself. And it seems that we don’t teach. I mean, that’s something that we don’t teach in American culture is to embrace your flaws as much as the rest of you. I mean, we’re so geared to achievement and, and that’s, that’s an amazing thing, but man , you can’t expect a 16 year old or a 26 year old, or you can’t expect perfection every single day of yourself, especially when you’ve done the things that you did. I mean, you moved to a foreign country, you didn’t speak the language you wanted badly to fit in. And then when you didn’t, you kind of beat yourself up. I think that so I’m curious to know , what that process like did you have to completely reorder..? You speak of thought patterns, so I’m really interested in how you had to reorder the way you think.

Tiffany N.: 14:13

So it’s more gradually , first I would just , the self-forgiveness because I’m naturally very , honest and brutally honest persons. And so when I was in the now is bringing out these huge confusions and at the type of person that felt the worst when I was in limbo, when I didn’t know what’s going on, when I became very indecisive and I don’t know where to go or what I should do. Um, I get, I think a lot of high achievers have that issue where we lost some kind of direction and wasn’t sure where we supposed to go, what were you doing next? It became very uncomfortable and very confusing. And I would just be in denial. No , no , no , this is working fine. I would just deal with this . This is fine . Even this misery, but is fine. I know what’s going on. So , one of my good blessing was , I forgive myself, I had enough courage to face, what am I going through? And I’d realize that I hated myself. It was a lot of self-loathing and zero self-esteem. And I also , have good analytical skill , like my brain and I contemplate a lot. And it was also good luck around those time. Several months later I stopped by Japan. My teacher who was a Tibetan meditation master, and I had been trying at that time , for three years to meditate, try to get this illusive inner -peace that everybody was bragging about with meditation. But I didn’t succeed because I always fell asleep whenever I try to meditate nobody. So I thought we know about that. I thought it was a lost cause. You know, it was just wasn’t for me. And, but when I stumbled upon him, he was teaching me meditation and , it’s finally stick . Cause I’m like, all right. It was just like Lao Tzu said that “when the student’s ready, the teacher will appear.” And that was how that moment was for me. And so after that, there was a lot of great Buddhist philosophy and , principal , and , he would explain those to me. And that was very eye-opening because it wasn’t like, you know, just , it wasn’t like he just sat me down and tell me a bunch of principal at the time, but it’s more like going through the process of learning. And there’s a lot of contemplation in my own practice. And then sometime he would say a sentence that help pointing out some kind of a true thing , helping get the light bulbs going off. So that has been very helpful with the life for the thought patterns. And also because precisely because I broke off the engagement, I have a lot of alone time. And also that this pain that’s coming up from facing or the past and facing all the uncomfortable feeling now writes a nasty feeling of how terrible I felt about myself. And it was all that kind of pain that has really helped to see the pattern clearer, like , much more clarity. And , uh, and that was how I started tracing back and going a lot of , uh, writing a reflection, exercise, a lot of contemplations and always, always come down to like a decision once I know that it’s all starting out from, we each have our own perceptions and our own like very subconscious belief because it all form from our personal experience, our culture, where we grew up , it was just like about our perception. So if anybody read Harry Potter, we just know that, you know, like when we see like a twist, the story twist like way haters. Uh, professors Snape for very, very long time until like toward the end of the series, then they were just basically just one paragraph talking about his story that flip our whole perception and we feel completely 180 degree difference about that character. And that’s similar to life in every other aspect of life. When we change the way we think about something, we also changed the way we feel about something and it automatically change our decision , about whatever we choose to.

Bunny : 19:01

Well, there, there is a phrase that I learned probably five or six years ago is, you know, change the way you look at things and the things you look at will change. Um, and it’s two different things. You know, it , they will change in your mind, but also the power that they have over you will change. And it’s , a conscious choice, you know, it’s like you say about Harry Potter. It’s funny you brought that up because Johanna is sort of a Harry Potter fiend.

Johanna: 19:32

I was like, oh, now you’re speaking my language. Yes. I know exactly what you’re talking about,

Bunny : 19:36

But it’s so true, isn’t it? I mean, it’s a tiny detail, but you have to consciously accept it. You know, Harry Potter had to accept that about professor Snape, but , and sort of his perception about Hogwarts, everything there had been, some of it had been based on how he perceived professor Snape. So it seems, it’s so funny because your entire life can be based on a perception and yeah. And then you, you modify that perception. You choose to modify that perception and suddenly you , I don’t know. Do you think you sort of rewire your brain? How does, what do you think about that?

Tiffany N.: 20:23

This is a gradual process. Nobody just wakes up overnight and have your brain rewired . It all starts with first a decision first of all , to face it. And second to actually do something about it and it’s going to be a practice and the why once I have this clarity and I recognize what I’ve been doing, why I’ve been doing that, and whether I want to change that kind of behavior or not , then I go on and actually start changing it. So it started out with just like a practice, like when I’m becoming more mindful of my emotions and my thoughts that like the essential that’s like, oh , wait all the time, like a hundred percent. So even when nothing goes on in my life, I still need to keep that level of awareness up to be aware of my emotions and my thinking. And just so I never had to avoid falling into the state of confusion as before. So all we have to keep that level of awareness and then that level of awareness help to catch when a trigger come up or when a similar situation come up. What I would have act as they before and got swept away with all the overwhelming emotions before I had this tiny bit of window that aware that, okay, this was my trigger and this is what I typically would do. And then, because I was aware of that, I would record, I would recognize that, okay. You know, maybe I felt is overall. So let’s, let’s take a break and I think a breather and , think this through a little bit, or decide to do something when I more in a better state of mind and that’s helping helpful that’s awareness. And then eventually the action that I chose to make with that awareness has changed and all the time is , uh , it changed my life from that. So it’s a gradual process. And then eventually it just becomes like a natural practice.

Bunny : 22:30

Well, I mean, I know this is really a simplistic way to approach it, but, but the first thing you have to do is know what your triggers are. I mean, I have to tell you I’m 60 years old. And I know that I have a few triggers, you know, I have some, you know, just because I know they don’t listen to this podcast. I have some sibling triggers. I get in the room with siblings who I don’t have perfect relationships with, and I become a 15 year old again. And I’m working really hard on those triggers, which is even though my brain takes me back to that place, I have to know that when I get in that room, I’m actually not 15 years old. Again, I have to, I have to reclaim some of my own power and my own piece . But, so it’s interesting. Just, just the idea of knowing what your triggers are.

Tiffany N.: 23:30

And that’s truly the big game changer . Like as long as you’re aware, what your triggers are the name of the game is to catch it. The further along you are, you just catch your trigger earlier and faster. It’s not about you’re not going to be triggered anymore. I mean, eventually you might get that happy ending of never get triggered again by that same thing. But most of the time, it doesn’t happen, because we have our own personality. And sometimes the things are very ingrained in us that something is just erk us and it just triggered the hell out of us for, you know , for no reason, probably just our personality. Like for me, like, especially, and I find this, it’s not about like the situation that triggers is about the people and how we feel about them and how they make us feel. And it’s just some people, especially family member. Like I had a strong relationship with my own mother. So some time , something she said it was maybe very simple thing, very small thing, and it would trigger me and I was snap it’s basically. So yeah. So how journey the goal is not about, you know, trying to become this perfect saint that you’re just loving and positive and never get triggered or anytime , that doesn’t happen that’s just not realistic. And we all have different reactions to different things. And we all have our own personality, how we deal with how we , like in a meditation, no one , like even when we study or something, we each have our own way to do things. And that is specific to us. So very similarly we’re gonna respond to a lot of trigger very differently. The game is just to become aware of it. So we just recognize the trigger and the earlier, and the fact that we can recognize the trigger, the more power that we have in our own choice. So once one recognizes, then we can choose to, you know , just be at the moment and act like we did before, or we just say, okay, let’s just be. Just have a timeout for like a minute. And then we come back to the situation or something like that, and that has been helpful. But the most thing that is required of us are two things. First is honesty. We need to be brutally honest about what trigger is , how we truly feel we cannot. That’s the thing I really learned. The first thing was , no matter where I go, I have always to take myself with me, so I run away from it.

Bunny : 26:22

That’s so terrible sometimes. Yeah .

Tiffany N.: 26:24

So like, no matter how I try to burry myself in work or, you know, try to forget and just, you know, like sometimes when we get into relationship, we tend to lose ourselves in relationship. And we just really take on that relationship as part of our identity. And we kind of lose ourselves in the process of it. But no matter what, no matter how a little bit of shred of you remain that relationship, you can never lose it. And no matter what you do, no matter where life , whatever happened, you have to take your self too. You cannot run away from yourself. So it really required that brutal honesty to face, whatever we truly feel when we truly thought if even if we acted nice on the outside, if we acted like generous. Even I think this very popular when we say yes, when we really want to say no, when we take on something, even though we say yes, like yeah , sure, no problem we’ll take care of it. But we were like, Hey man, now I have to do this. I really don’t want to, when I do this, it was that brutal honesty to actually admit it to ourselves first, maybe the only time, but we need to admit it to ourselves. And the second thing that we really needed, courage, we really need courage to see all the undesirable part of ourself and to also have the courage to make a different choice.

Bunny : 27:52

Well, and you got to this place with help. I mean, you had a spiritual leader and I think that people tend to feel like if I look for a mentor or a leader, it’s an admission of some deficiency in myself, but don’t you think it’s essential or it’s certainly helpful to find somebody who can be your coach or your mentor because I, and, and, and how do people even go about finding somebody that can help them in that way?

Tiffany N.: 28:26

So I think the spiritual aspect is a central to ourselves . We all have a certain kind of belief in something, and we might not think it’s as important, but it is because we’re going to think about it every day, but suddenly when something come up, when something challenging comes out, then what are we , the first thing we think of when we have something challenging come up, that we have zero control over. The first thing we would think of is a spiritual aspect. Usually like, oh God, there’s nothing we can do. So I guess I’d have to pray for it. So spiritual aspect is essential to us, but we don’t really , um, spend time and effort and thinking about with , or in, you know, put some for some work into it to make sure that , is growth and the developed , like we take time and effort to learn a lot of skill and learn knowledge and all that stuff. But we don’t really learn about something so essential to us, like , spirituality, and we just lean on it when challenges come up and we just lean on our spiritual strength and the spiritual aspect help us do to go overcome , um , or the challenges. And it might not be ideal because we never really spent time in learning our own spirituality. Um, so it’s very personal prospect, but it’s very essential. And I would say having a , um, mentor or a teacher or a coach , um, is really helpful. It can accelerate your healing process, your learning process as a very good rate. And sometimes you really need them. Sometime you don’t even have to seek them out. Everybody can be your teacher. But to be purely, that kind of role is good. Just like, you know, let’s say my mother trigger me so often. She is my teacher. Like she, because she’d give me the trigger that I could love so much about myself .

Bunny : 30:35

Oh, no. Are you saying the siblings that I have trouble with are my teachers?

Tiffany N.: 30:41

They are. But there is a little bit difference with the teacher that we didn’t ask for. And the teacher that we actually seeking out, just like, you know , we’re going to go to school and we probably don’t have a choice of what teacher we get on our subject, but we can seek out tutors that kind of help us to go through all that stuff. So, very similarly with like, if , when you’re seeking out, you know mentor or therapist, counselor, or teacher or coach, that’s very similar that’s mean that we intentionally want to develop and grow something of us and we’re seeking help. You know , that’s just like any other subject in life that we want to learn. If you want to learn cooking or drawing, then you seek our teacher. So very similar with the spiritual aspect.

Bunny : 31:34

You said something I’ve been thinking about a lot recently because we don’t, we only look at the spiritual side of ourselves when we find ourselves in crisis. And I was thinking the other day, what if I spent the same amount of time in spiritual learning, in studying the things that are part of my spiritual belief system? What if I spent the same amount of time doing that as I do learning more about writing and, you know, I’ve, we’ve taken a crash course in how to do a podcast. What, what if I spent a similar amount of time and energy in spiritual growth as I have in personal growth and in, you know, learning how to be a better marketer and a better podcaster , it seems that it would be life-changing .

Tiffany N.: 32:31

It would. But it does, you know, it would be some kind of , state of mind and , the type of teacher people seek. So gotta be the right time, right place, just like the last two coasts when the student is ready, the teacher where up here. So I was say, let’s say for somebody that is actively experiencing some kind of trauma, some kind of , um, abusive situations, the a mentor, a spiritual mentor or spiritual teacher, probably not the best bet they should looking for professional help, try to get them to the good state of mind, first, a good state of survival first before they seeking out things. So I think for the spiritual coach or mentor is have to be at a certain right time in life that you want to be. Let’s say, if you were struggling to find a job or , um, and you’re just struggling to survive, it’s definitely not a good time, right ? Nobody, nobody can think about the happiness when they starving. It’s just not realistic. Also another thing that they want to be, it’s gotta be the right state of mind and it’s very difficult, almost impossible to receive the help to actually understand whatever the mentors say when they are in denial. If I met my teacher, or let’s say even just one year earlier, I would not, I wouldn’t have not followed him because I could not understand what he was saying. I was still in denial. So if we stay in the state of mind not being denial or we haven’t blew up enough courage, to be honest with ourselves, to actually admit it. And a bit of there is something going wrong and we want to change it without that kind of honesty, without the kind of courage. And without that conscious choice of like, okay, we want to do with that motivation, then it’s probably not a good time to see a mentor. You’ll be wasting your time and money because you’re not ready yet. It has to be in that ready state of mind to be open if you’re so close-minded , I’m like, no , no, no, no. I wanted to change. It had to be very specific, you know? So we not open to whatever the wisdom is or whatever the way whatever , going to be completely different. Thinking from us. We’re not open to that yet. We’ll be like, okay, I’ll follow you, but it should agree to my belief and you know, not quite there. But again, on the other side of head coin, when people look for a spiritual mentor coach, you really have to know your own value. You know, like if, if they looking for a mentor, first of all, you want to know they , uh, authentic. And second you want to , um, I guess sometimes it’s hard to know somebody’s authentic unless you know them for a very long time. But essentially, ya, you want to, I guess you want to follow somebody you don’t want to follow, like and find out let’s say they’re a criminal and you find out like, wow, I follow the wrong person, but make sure you make sure what you have. Like, you know, you’re almost moral first. You know, you want to actually follow someone that’s ethical. That’s first of all, ethical first. Cause it’s hard to know when they are authentic or not, unless you know them for years, but at least follow someone for ethical. And then , um, you know, say something believe like, you know, if you feel really strong about social justice and you want to follow somebody that equally as strong about social justice, you know, don’t, don’t follow that people that not really that advocating for it. And then you get upset about, you know, then it’s going to hinder the learning. And the main thing of looking for a teacher is resonance. You have to resonate with what they teach and how they teach. Just like when we go to school, we can have like five math teacher, but there’s one that it just really like the way that they, the way they teach you math, it’s just easy for you to understand. Like you can get it, you can do it doable. That’s your favorite teacher. So that’s going to be the similar kind of resonant that when you’re looking for a spiritual teacher, like, it doesn’t matter if they very famous or if they’re very well-known, if the word they say and the word they write or the, how they teach does it is hard for you to understand. They’re probably not the right person for you. You have to find someone that resonate with you and helping you easy to understand. It’s like making things like, and that’s going to be the one that you resonate with and that’s the one you should seeking out to work with.

Bunny : 37:33

So, I’m dying to know about the happiness blueprint. First, I’m interested to know how you came to create it and call it that. But also what is it? You know, we always like to give our listeners a really practical piece that they could, that they could look at today and, and begin to use in their life. And it sounds like that’s what you’ve created.

Tiffany N.: 38:01

It is just a very simple idea. And it just from working with a lot of people and from my own personal experience that I came up with, this is so it’s similar to , if you , heard about Ikigai and Japanese term is about, you know, how to find the appropriateness and the good, the job that metaphor them, but the work that meant for them. So, but it’s similar with that. So my happiness blueprint is consisted of four circle, which is basically the four man polar in life. And is all have a little bit of hierarchy order, but not quite very well set defying boundary, but there is a little bit of hierarchy. So the four of them, so the first one is , um, basic needs. Like, like I mentioned before, like everybody before they can be happy, they need to ensure that their basic needs are met. They need to be, you know , clothed and shelter and have food on the table. They have this kind of basic need . Like they have to worry about what to eat tomorrow or where to stay tomorrow for shelter. They most likely not going to be happy and they’re not going to be seeking happiness anytime soon until that basic needs met. So that’s just common sense. And then the second part , the second circle. So the basic need is one. And , it just , like I said , basis, right ? Don’t think that I need a BMW to feel happy. That’s not a basic need , so no, no, no. Just basic needs , you know, survival. And then the second part is basically their purpose or their passions. It doesn’t mean that they figured it out what their purpose is or what they’re calling yet is basically they aware of what make them happy. Typically it is a hobby. Typically it’s an interest. We all need that in our life to know what brings us fulfillment and meaning , you know, like it’s easy to say that, oh God, yeah, I enjoy pizza and binge on Netflix, but that doesn’t bring you fulfillment or meaning. So that’s not it to get that circle. It’s typically something most of the time it’s either very creative or very serving other people. So it’s either like you create something very creative in the affair , like painting, drawing, making something, making , um, and ranging to , you know, when you’re passionate about something. So that’s the, that’s either very, kind of like leading you toward that circle. Like maybe you passionate about environment, maybe you’re passionate about animals, something like that. Those are the glue, the glue to your purpose . So that’s , you need that in your life. Something like that. That aspect, it doesn’t have to be their job. Like what’s the percentage of people that work in the job that I absolutely love and would die for. Hopefully not many because that’s just not, not working

Bunny : 41:22

Well. I would bet that there’s a really small percentage of people that their job is actually their life purpose or passion.

Tiffany N.: 41:30

Yes. And I will say this is very against the grain, but I would say it’s not necessary for you to work in a job that you absolutely love because a job is a job. You need disciplines, you need to be good at what you’re doing. You need to be competent. And also there’s gonna always be the bad day into good day in the job. And if you work something very passionate, I think this one , entrepreneurial , comes upon on down entrepreneurial journey is when you do something you really love and an obstacle come up, sometimes that passions can become a burden and it might not always be good. So it doesn’t. So, you know, it’s not , um, it’s, it’s good to do. You know, a job is a job. You don’t always have to love it. As long as you don’t loathe it and hate it , and just really impact your wellbeing , it’s fine to do the job if you’re good at it. And if you easy at it, and if you don’t mind doing it , it’s fine. You can do the job, but as long as it gives you that energy laugh , give you that time for you to pursue the other thing that make you meaningful. Like maybe you, I’m not crazy about being an accountant, but it gives you that kind of meaning, and the time to also volunteer , uh, let’s say for habitat for humanity on the side that make your life very fulfilling, you know, you can, so you can have everything. So that’s the circle that, you know a lot of people would trip up on because they like, oh, then I needed to find my purpose, my one calling at night and it’s to find it. And that will be sad and it’s not true .

Speaker 3: 43:19

You know, sometime people have different purpose, different calling, and sometime we don’t even need to know what our purpose or calling is. Cause it might change and we might have many. And mostly, it’s just the thing that we’re passionate about that typically your purpose. So that one, and then the third circle, which is even more important than that is the relationship because human being , we are social beings, we are not mentally alone. We are always , interconnected with others and interdependent from the moment we were born, you know, we already need other people for us just to survive. And that’s very similar thing without mental , our mental health and is easy to strive to be independent. And like, we all like to be independent. We all like to stand on our two feet and not, you know , relied on somebody all the time in a way it’s good, but also don’t lean too much toward that direction goes , can be toxic because at the end of the day we need other , if we isolated on ourselves by ourselves , on an island, we probably not going to survive. You know, we need food that people farm and made and you know, so we need social bond and that relationship is important because we, as a social wellbeing , not only we need like, just socialize with other people, we also need a meaningful relationship. And obviously the relationship that gives you so much trigger that probably the, not the one, even though it’s meaningful, but it probably not the one that bringing you fulfillment. But we need that at least one relationship where you feel loved and appreciated. But most of all, if you’re supportive sort of relationship that is not necessarily required to be a romantic one. But is be very emotionally intimate. That person knows the truth of you and still supporting you. And not everybody has the luxury to have it, but the one that I would have, you know, I would explain and help people strive forward is meaningful relationship is you can have a lot of meaningful relationship. The main thing is , first of all, you have to be honest, don’t put up like a face to pretend so to please other people. So people like you but it just makes who you are and that a relationship that can give us a lot of safety just to be supported . That’s the one that so the two things that meet from that relationship that we were looking for, first of all, is the safety that we feel so really be, can be ourselves. The second one is to be understood to , um, to be supported, to be understood. As long as you, in your luck , you have just one person that can do that. No matter where they are going to be friends , they can be mentor can be your spouse. Your family member allow, we have that one person in our life that’s really helped. That’s really helped . And not pets, I know a lot of people “like my pet is my soulmate and they understand me.” It’s possible. That can be your soulmate, but we talking about human interaction over here, they’re going to need a higher level understanding.

Bunny : 47:03

Thank you for that. I mean, we live in a community where a lot of people say my dog is absolutely my soul mate. I’m like, oh

Tiffany N.: 47:10

Yes, they can, probably not gonna understand, like, let’s say you going through, even as the docg probably like , I love you, but I mean, they , they’re not capable of a lot of things or not .

Bunny : 47:25

So we’re , we’re not knocking pets. We’re just saying that they’re not relationship that you’re talking about in this circle. Yeah. And what’s the last one I’m excited.

Tiffany N.: 47:35

The last one is the most important one. And is after you got the basic need complete back level complete, then you agree to work on all these three circles at once. That one is yourself. So you are the one that drive your own universe because , your perceptions and of how you think about things and that in turn that really in turn dictate how you feel a lot about being is how you make decisions about thing as soon as your perception change every single change. So yourself is the one that really need to be working on is spent the most time in it. Even when you don’t know your purpose, even when you haven’t found that meaningful relationship, yet you yourself with the first one and the most time and attention that you need to put in and the one that you need to maintain throughout life. And then every other thing would fall into place. But the one about ourselves , we really don’t have any idea how to work on because we were not taught to, we tend to get taught to focus. Let’s say, we thought about focus really on the outside. Just like when we were asked, when will you be young, but what do you want to be? You know, everybody with picking a profession, you know, like I want to be doctor, engineer, lawyer, all that stuff, but nobody’s saying I want to be happy. You know, like it’s never crossed our mind to actually learned about it and trained about it. But it’s something to learn about. So first of all, we have to learn about ourselves . First of all, we have to know our own morals. And I know this sounds very basic, but I know it’s, you know, one or moral and value, but I guarantee you, you might not know yourself. Like I know I’m a good person. And you think that we understand our moral and value, yes. On the basic sign that , yeah, we, you know, want to be a good person and don’t want to harm anybody. Yes. but deeper than that, what is your value like? Uh , we do, we value freedom the most . Do we value relationship the most? What do we value? We need to figure it out. And if we never spend time thinking about it, there will come a time that , uh, inevitable , there will come a time that our brain and our heart and not in line and they are fighting each other that we have internal conflict, let’s say , um, we know that we should do it, but we’d really don’t want to, that’s a conflict that tend to happen when we don’t know our own value. Then we kind of have that internal struggle when we don’t know, then we just like, maybe I shouldn’t, maybe I don’t, that’s where a lot of indecision and a decision paralysis happen . Where we have that internal conflicts? So we need to figure out how to value that takes time. And another one is honesty. You know, that’s like really all the whole journey to tech , a lot of honesty and courage. So a lot of people would think that, you know, my values should be freedom and bravery you know, like you can not just think of it , you have to explore and actually feel it. And don’t just pick whatever honorable character or from the movie, you have a hero and to think, yeah, that’s, that’s my value, you know, saving the world. That’s going to be my value , that probably not. That’s probably not it. The value for each person is different. Let’s say, for example, for me, I have always thought my value going to be family, a family person, very family oriented , everything for my family and , very little relationship focus and it turned out to be not true and , through a lot of exploration I found out that my value number one value , my top two value actually is honesty is that, so it seems to be the running theme for me. And second is freedom. So completely different with what I thought I would never have never thought about it, but it was actually freedom. So it came to, so it’s like a personal experience sharing that when I finally figured that out, I found the reason I found that out is when I was, when I feel that I was in free. When I feel that I feel constricted, let’s say , let’s say, for example, my mom, sorry, mom, hopefully you’re not listening to the podcast . I’m making you my example so much. So something that, that come up, like usually the triggered relationship, really very enlightening about what your value is. So for my mom at that time, we have a very big fight and I did not feel that I love her. I have so much anger that I feel like, why am I your daughter why did I choose this? Like I did not choose this. And this is ridiculous. And I would have to have a lot of anger. I did not feel any love for her ? I would just have, like, I don’t want to see you anymore. I hope I never see you again, kind of thing. It was, it was very, a lot of anger. And , what was the light bulb came on for me was when I went away. I couldn’t handle it anymore. Like, you know what? I need to take a personal short retreat. Let me just take a weekend away. I rented a cabin somewhere and just give me some space in a moment. Literally the moment that I drove away, just putting space, make me feel really, the love that I actually have for my own mother, that space. And that was the epiphany. Come on that. So space is something very important for me and it wasn’t actually space it’s freedom. So I realized , wow, freedom actually very important to me. If , before I always thought, you know, my value is going to be loyalty and love. And that is if I don’t feel free, if I feel like I have to do something, if I feel obligated to please my mom or something, my dad , right. Feel obligated to please other people, I won’t be able to feel the love. So that was… So obviously freedom would be my number one value. So that was very epiphany and that’s been helpful and that also helped with the perception. So then , oh, okay. So now that I have the full picture, I know my value. This is the situation with the say with my mom now, what do I choose to do? And so that’s put a truly different light on my decision. It turned out to be the same, you know, like when we make , when we make a decision to please other , ah , I do not like to do this, but I feel obligated to do is , but now when I know it, I’m like, yeah, you know what? I know that this stuff , and I still choose to do it because I really want to her to be happy. And it wasn’t really a big deal for me. It really doesn’t matter that much. So yeah , that makes me feel very different about the exact same decision, but food very differently because like , okay, I choose to do it. Not because I feel obligated to do it. So it just, this small tweak, but very important on your own spiritual journey to figure out your value. So that’s, that’s, a you, yourself circle , you need to know your value, that’s the exploration and curiosity and honesty to find out . And really just don’t jump and change , right ? So we really need to have that open mind a bar . So , what I tell a lot of people is like, especially when people come to me when they already in intimate relationship and they tend to have a struggle, they tend to have challenges. That’s when they find me funny , but I was saying like , it’s gonna be a sign that you don’t know who you are when you know your significant, other better than, you know yourself, or when they know you better than better than you know yourself, because you with yourself 24 7, and they with you less than 24/7, and they know you better than you probably something disconnecting here. And , it might sound weird, like, yeah, I know my spouse better than they know themselves as myself. Sweet . But there’s potentially some issue there like, why don’t they know themselves? If I went with a spouse, say, yeah, I know them better. But if we ourselves know that they know better, then you probably need to take yourselves on some dates. You need to get to know yourself, get to know,

Bunny : 56:45

Wait, I love that concept. Take yourself on a date, spend some time alone, get to know yourself better sort of cultivate a relationship with yourself, right?

Tiffany N.: 56:57

Yes. And that is very important. That would be the most important circle. So once you have the basic needs in place, so you don’t have to worry so much. So you have that mental space and energy to spend time on thinking of other thing than survival, then the yourself. So you is the one that you need to focus on the most or the first thing you need to focus on. And then the purpose and the relationship will naturally follow. And they also very aligned with you because when you know yourself, you will know what you like. You will know what you’re passionate about. So that’s what naturally fall into your lap. And because you also know yourself, you’re very honest toward , in daily life when you act towards, and that’s what just attract the right person that comes to you. You know, when you, you know be a little bit critical or cynical or whatever, and you’re honest about it, the person that, you know, understand your belief or, or understand what you were saying, they will also like, Hey, I understand you know, and we can be friends or something like that. So naturally though, the other two will fall into place.

Bunny : 58:12

And I also think Tiffany, it’s, it’s so important to know yourself so that you can say no to things that aren’t in alignment. I mean, I think the basis for a lot of unhappiness is for me personally, I’m typically a people pleaser. So a lot of my unhappiness has come from places where I felt like I needed to say yes, every time somebody asked me something. And, I’m , like I said, I’m still learning every single day, but what I’m learning more and more is to say no to things. It’s so important to know what to say no to, right?

Tiffany N.: 58:51

Yes, “no” is a very powerful word. And we need to learn to say it in a way that is true. I will say like when we declined doing something we should also check out intention, you know, like we can say no, like, oh no, I’m very busy or no, like in , in a spiteful way, like, no, I don’t like you. I don’t want to do it for you. And I depend on the mood of the day, you know, if they ask us on a different day where we happy , like maybe I can do it, but like on our bad mood , they like, no , we’re not gonna do anything. So a no, is good first step, but the longer on the journey, the more authentic our “no” should be, you know, we say no, for the right reason, we say no, like, no, that’s really not aligned with me. And, or like, no , I think like I know that I should do it or maybe like , I normally I can do it, but probably not good for you or something like that. Like when we might, be able to see a bigger picture. So , I guess what I’m trying to say that yes, they know is the first, very first step in the inner journey and assume very, very hard at first and eventually the know get more , um, you can get deeper into the, no , we can get to check your own intention. You can get a very authentic No to the point that you feel so strongly about then there’s going to be Zero internal struggle whenever you say no.

Bunny : 1:00:29

I know we’re gonna run out of time and that you have another appointment soon, but , I’m fascinated about some other things that I saw in your bio, including your , intuitive taro reading skills. So I’m going to ask if at some point you can come back. I’d love, I’d love for our listeners to hear more about that, but , I’ve been on your website, but I want for people to know how they can find you and is the happiness blueprint on your site somewhere so that people can get a little more acquainted with some time with how that works. O kay.

Tiffany N.: 1:01:14

Yes. So , people can find me through my website. I don’t have a lot of social media presence . I only have Facebook and , I don’t have any other social media , just a lot of time wasting on social media. So the happiness blueprint, actually, they will get that. It’s not like show very clearly on the website, but where the guy that I put out and popular with people is a step to move on when the things don’t work out, actually, when they signed up for that for that guide, the happiness blueprint will be included. They will get that email about happiness b usiness blueprint in the three day a nd the third day, I think so after they get that one, a few days later, they get the happiness blueprint also. So that’s how they’re g oing t o get it.

Bunny : 1:02:07

Well. So we’ll post links to how to locate you. But, I know Johanna and I were both writing the whole time you were talking because there were so many gyms there. But , I think one of the best things I heard was , um, create a relationship, take yourself on a date, create a relationship with yourself so that you can really know yourself and know , um, and start to perceive yourself differently. Am I right?

Tiffany N.: 1:02:38

Yes. Do might think that you think of yourself a certain way , but you never really never questioned it on how true it is. And once we have this open mind, when we become curious, yeah . Like similarly, the exact same mentality. When we go on a date with somebody, when you’re curious about someone and you’re really open about it and you’re eager to learn about it, so do it with yourself. Then you will learn a lot about things yourself, and it might be something different and it might be something wonderful.

Bunny : 1:03:08

Well, thank you so much for being here. This is it’s, it’s been fun. It’s been enlightening. And , um, I don’t know about you, but I love meeting new people who , um, I mean, we’re, we’re all on this path of self-awareness that leads to happiness. So thank you so much for being here. Tiffany, we’ll talk again.

Tiffany N.: 1:03:28

Thank you Bunny for having me.

Bunny : 1:03:30

That’s all we’ve got today. Friends. I want to thank you for joining the lifesaving gratitude podcast with your host bunny, Terry that’s me and my producer and assistant Johanna Medina. We feel like we’re in the business of sharing the stories that save us, and we hope you’ll share as well by letting your friends and family know about the podcast follow and like us wherever you listen. And please take the time to leave a review, whether it’s a stellar comment or a suggestion, we are open to suggestions all the time. Also follow us on Instagram at life-saving gratitude pod. You can also follow me personally at bunny Terry , Santa Fe. You can sign up my website at bunnyterry .com to receive weekly emails about how to become the ultimate gratitude nerd. Thanks so much for checking in. 

Bunny: Hi everyone. This is Bunny with the Lifesaving Gratitude podcast. Just in case you don’t know me, I am a stage four colon cancer survivor and the author of Lifesaving Gratitude, which is a book about how gratitude helped me kick cancer’s ass. 

Today we’re going to talk to a special guest about how marketing and marketers can use gratitude to create business and connections with clients and also for themselves to create a really positive way to do their job. But first, I just want to thank you for being here and ask that you download the podcast if you’d like. And certainly subscribe wherever you listen to other podcasts. But enough about me and enough about the podcast. 

I want to introduce you to my special guest, who’s also a friend. Craig Cunningham is currently a realtor with Keller Williams, Santa Fe. And that’s how I met him. However, this is a recent career for him and he was, and correct me if I mispronounce the word, but you were a hotelier. Is that the way to say that?

Craig: Yes. 

Bunny: Yes. He’s spent 30 years in corporate sales and marketing. He’s traveled extensively. I’m going to let him tell you all the places that he’s been to, but he is the founder and principal of Cunningham + Colleagues marketing consultants. He was in the past the VP of marketing and quality for Seaport Hotels and World Centers and the VP of marketing for Core North America. So welcome Craig Cunningham.

Craig: Thanks so much for having me on your podcast.

Bunny: I’m excited. I know you have some great tips for all of our listeners. When I think about these podcasts, I always think about the people that are going to want the information we’re offering. I mean, we’re here to help people and we’re here to figure out how gratitude can make everyone’s life not just easier and simpler, but also fuller. So why don’t you start, Greg? Just tell us a little bit about yourself. Tell us how in the world you ended up in this completely different career? And yet the truth is we’re still just marketers first and realtors, second. Tell me a little bit about yourself. Tell our listeners.

Craig: Yeah. So, as you said, I’ve been in marketing and sales for more than 30 years. I actually started off with an advertising and PR agency and then had the good fortune to be hired by my hotel client at the time, Wyndham hotels. At that time it was a North American chain and it’s now international. 

But from then on, I was in the hotel business. It’s definitely a career where if you are not focused on client service and the whole concept of gratitude, you’re not going to be successful. I always thought of our job as just surprising and delighting our guests and making them feel like they chose the right hotel to be with. And so it was always about waking up every day and saying, “What can I do to make somebody’s day and to give them a great experience?” And, of course, to do this you have to be grateful because they opted to choose your hotel over the million other choices that they had. 

So when I retired from the hotel business two years ago, I was trying to figure out what else I wanted to do with my life. I started doing more volunteering. I volunteer with Kitchen Angels here in Santa Fe to deliver meals to people who are not able to leave their homes. But I also started thinking of whether I wanted to do something else from a professional standpoint and the real estate business seemed like a natural extension, because it’s all about client service. You have to figure out ways to make people feel like they’ve made the right choice in working with you. So it’s all about being grateful every day and figuring out what can I do to help them today. How else can I extend what I’m doing for them in a way that they will appreciate and know that I appreciate them. So that’s what it’s really all about, because of course they could work with a million other other people

Bunny: Right. And let’s talk for just a second. Don’t you think that marketing has changed over the 30 years that you’ve been doing this? I mean, it seems to me that when we were kids, which was back before the crust cooled, we were sort of marketed at. Just talk for a minute about how marketing is different now than it was 10 years ago or 30 years ago.

Craig: It’s funny, because I was going to say the exact same thing. Back in the day, you were running a TV ad or a radio spot or a print ad and it was passive in that you just presented the information, unless you were direct sales. But really with the advent of so much digital media, you are instantly able to forge a relationship with customers through social media, through Facebook, Instagram, where you’re having a dialogue with them from the very beginning. This allows you to work in a much more personal way and to be able to find out much more quickly how you can serve those people. 

So I think it’s changed completely. Before you just sort of put it out there into the ether and hope that something worked, and now you’re able to engage. And I’ve found that so much in real estate where I’m getting emails from folks and then it evolves from the email into a phone call or a zoom call or something like that instantly. I think that’s so much better for both people. Especially for somebody like me who wants to find ways to engage with people and to be of service to them, it makes it a lot easier and more rewarding.

Bunny: I just think about the ways that I connect with my clients. It’s as if you’re somehow conveying to those people that you’re grateful that they showed up.

Craig: Yeah, exactly. I mean, my whole thought is that it’s not a transaction, it’s a relationship. And that relationship can be multifaceted. Once you’ve sold them a house or sold their house, I like to think that we’ve formed a friendship and a bond and that relationship is going to continue. And honestly, I don’t even care if I ever get another piece of business for them. Now think of them as friends. I want to have them to my house for dinner or go have coffee or something like that. 

I think that kind of thing that makes a difference for people in wanting to work with me.  It’s coming from a position of wanting to be of service to them and wanting to make them happy and finding the right solution for them. I’m working with some first-time-buyers right now and I kind of feel like they’re my kids. It’s about, okay, how can I really help them with this? And they’re grateful for the counsel I’m able to give to them, and I’m grateful for the opportunity to work with them. So it’s very rewarding. I think if you approach business relationships in the same way as you would with your friends, it’s a win-win situation for everybody.

Bunny: Well, talking about those first-time home buyers, I mean, that’s one of my favorite deals. You never make the most money from those transactions, but I’m so grateful to be reminded that we are providing the American dream when we’re selling real estate. Yeah. It’s amazing. It’s my favorite experience.

Craig: Yeah. I mean, for somebody to have their first home and to be excited about how they’re going to decorate it and what they’re going to do. And with this young couple, seeing them excited when they see a house brings out all my empathy and makes me want to really go the extra mile for them to make sure they find the right house at the right price for them. And then I just never want to stop. So then it’s like, “Okay, now I’m going to find this person for you to do the plumbing, and I’m going to find this person, etc, and I’ll be with you with you  to help explain things.” I just want to really continue to be of service.

Bunny: I talk a lot, especially on my blog, about Judy Camp, who was one of my first real estate mentors. She was a great friend and Linda Gammons partner for a long time before she passed away. But Judy Camp always says, “If you come from contribution, you can’t help but be successful.”

Craig: Yeah. I mean, just as I was saying, you can’t think of it as a transaction. I think, coming from contribution, how can I help you? How can I make this a better experience? How can I make this work? Because, especially in a real estate transaction, it can be stressful. It’s the biggest financial transaction for the majority of us. So how do you take the burden and the pressure away from them and sort of guide them through the process? I just think the main thing is that it’s much more fun, whether you’re doing volunteer work or in business, to wake up every day and figure out how I could make it fun for somebody else. Because then it’s fun for you and it gets you excited and passionate about what you’re doing.

Bunny: Well, it sounds like our big “why’s” are really similar. I certainly don’t want to put any words in your mouth, but it sounds like your big “why” is just to make the life of the people you come in contact with better.

Craig: Yeah. Of course making money is nice, but there are lots of ways to make money. It’s more about whether you are getting energy from it. And I think you really get energy when you’re working with someone and trying to figure out how you can help them, how you can make their day better, how you can make the service that you’re providing better. And also just doing things that saying, “What about if I do X, Y, Z?” and they’re  like, “Oh, you’ll do that for me?” And I’m like, “Of course.”

I have another set of clients where the transaction was fairly complicated and we were looking at lots of properties. Coming from a corporate background, I love to do spreadsheets and PowerPoint presentations—things like that. And so after about the third thing we had to do, they’re like, “Oh, how are we going to organize all these bids?”  And then one of the guys said to the other guy, “Well, Craig’s going to do a spreadsheet for us. He’s probably already got it done.” So it’s that kind of thing where you’re looking for ways to make their experience better.

Bunny: So this is always a funny question for me to ask, because I have such a loose gratitude practice other than just waking up in the morning and saying, “thank you, thank you, thank you,” and then writing things down, but do you have a practice that you follow that helps you both in your business and your personal life?

Craig: Well, since I came into real estate with Keller Williams, which focuses a lot on being servant leaders and helping people, I’ve gotten into the habit of writing three things I’m grateful for that day. It could be that it’s a beautiful day or a dog or my partner or the opportunity to help somebody or the coffee’s really good that day, but waking up and appreciating what you have in your life is a good way to get in a good mindset for the rest of it.

Bunny: Oh, absolutely. Something I always say is that we kind of rewire our brains. We do. We create new neural pathways every time we say that we’re grateful. So in terms of nuts and bolts, is there a way that you let your clients know? I mean, I find that there are a lot of young people, young entrepreneurs or people who are new to business, who forget how to tell their clients how they’re grateful for them, even if it’s a line in an email. Do you have something that you do specifically over and over?

Craig: I think for me, it’s maybe more in the actions. I think of “This is really going to be helpful if I do this or if I provide this information.” I think it’s always in my voice and the way that I write. I try to always communicate openly and in a friendly and conversational manner. But then I also think “It would be really cool and really helpful if I did X , Y , Z.” I created a whole PowerPoint just on the neighborhoods in Santa Fe, because if you’re out of town it gets confusing. And that came out of a client saying, “Well, I don’t really know the neighborhoods.” And I thought that this would be a great tool for them. So I created it and then I was able to use it with others. 

So I think for me, maybe it’s sort of on the fly. I used to say in the hotel hotel business, “How can I make this a wow experience?” Because the other way to think about it is that every relationship is with people. When you’re in a service business you’re really in the business of creating memories. You can create good memories or you can create bad memory and it’s much more fun to create good memories.

Bunny: And that just comes from a spirit of generosity. I mean, you obviously want this to be the best real estate experience they’ve ever had.

Craig: Right. Right. I’m very grateful for the people that have helped me along the way. I’ve been very fortunate in my career to always work for people who were concerned about my career development and my personal development and became dear friends. And I’ve had a couple of bosses that have hired me twice in two different jobs. So I’m always grateful for the things that other people have done for me. 

So then I want to pay it forward. When I came to Keller Williams and I was introduced to the team here, there was so much openness and willingness to share and help and support. It has been fantastic. What strikes me the most is how grateful I am for what other people have done for me. And how do I pay that back?

Bunny: I mean, this is not a podcast to plug Keller Williams. It’s really more to talk about mindset, but the place where I learned it was sitting in that training room and learning that my mindset was the secret sauce. I mean, that’s the success piece, right?

Craig: Yeah, exactly. It’s not just about production and everything. It’s about weight and having a sense of gratitude and contribution and a sense of abundance. And I don’t mean that in a monetary way. It could be abundance in your health or your friends or all of that kind of stuff. And I think back to you. Your experience with cancer was far worse than mine, but I did have prostate cancer about nine years ago. Everyone I worked with during that entire time when I was going for radiation every day for 10 weeks was so supportive. And then on the last day of radiation, there was this very important meeting, and everyone knew it was my last day.My whole team had a celebration for me on my last day. That was turning something that was obviously a challenging situation into something where I knew they really cared about me and supported me.

Bunny: Wow. I’m interested to hear how your mindset was in the middle of that? 

Craig: I’m just by nature, an optimistic person. So even though it was scary, I felt like I was in good hands from a medical standpoint and I just felt like I was gonna beat it. I had done the education that I needed to and then it was really about having a positive mindset. 

This is probably too much information, but I’ll say it anyway. You’re doing the radiation stripped down to your boxer shorts. And so I jokingly put this Facebook thing about the fact that I needed a new pair of boxer shorts for every day. And people started sending me underwear—different pairs of boxer shorts for every day. So while I was sitting there in the big machine, where you’re sort of in there and it’s buzzing and scanning and all that kind of stuff, it got to be kind of a joke with the techs:  “Oh , what’s he going to be wearing today?”

Bunny: I love that.

Craig: That was a way to keep my spirits up. And also during that process, I really learned how to be very focused. I was in a waiting room with people that were going through, frankly, worse things than prostate cancer. Don’t get me wrong, prostate cancer is pretty serious. It is. People die from it. But I was seeing so many other people that were having a much more challenging time than I was. And we became a family. We all bonded together during that process, because we were all waiting, sometimes for an hour. So it’s things like that. And also things like the kitchen angels service, where it helps reboot you every day for how grateful you should be in your own life and grateful for the opportunity to help other people.

Bunny: Right. There are tons of people who do get what a gift it is. People who don’t even have a specific gratitude practice, but at least an attitude every day that you’re going to figure out something. I just wrote a blog post on limiting beliefs and one of the things that I wanted to convey is that we get to choose every single moment how we view the world. And maybe for somebody out there who’s brand new in business or who’s starting a new business. I just read a statistic that said that the entrepreneur demographics are changing. And now like 48% of new entrepreneurs are over 50. So hooray for the old people! 

But I know that there are people out there right now who are thinking, “Well, I’m not any good at marketing. I’m not any good at that piece of it. I can sell stuff, but I’m not good at the marketing stuff.” I’ve got to tell you, I’m married to a guy who doesn’t believe in self promotion because he came from a generation when you played down your assets, instead of being grateful for them and talking about them. So I’d love to hear what you have to say to somebody who has that limiting belief that they can’t market. And they can’t promote themselves.

Craig: You know, we could all market ourselves, and we do it every day in our interactions.  Whether we think of it as marketing or not, we’re marketing ourselves all day long in how we react and treat other people. The thought I had as you were talking about your husband thinking self-promotion sounds like a dirty word is that it doesn’t have to be you talking  about “me, me, me” and “I did this million dollars in revenue.” This is kind of a turnoff in some ways, because you’re talking about yourself. But if you’re talking about how you can help somebody else and how you can provide a good experience for them with your information and knowledge, you’re not talking about yourself in that context. You’re talking about how you can be of service. I think that’s a much easier way for a lot of people from a generation where we weren’t really supposed to be talking about ourselves.

Bunny: Well, it was pre-social media. Our face wasn’t out there. We just weren’t trained to tell people, “Here’s the reason you should hire me instead of the other person.”

Craig: Yeah, exactly. I mean, now we’re all our own brands on social media. But I think that rather than saying to somebody, “Here’s why you should hire me versus somebody else,” you should just talk about how you can be of service in what you do in an authentic way. Then people are more likely to want to work with you, because you’re radiating a sense of positivity and an interest in them. And they’re not thinking that you just look at them as a transaction and then you’re onto the next person.

Bunny: I frequently use with my marketing coaching clients the example of a dinner party. If you went into a dinner party (and this is for people who are just beginning in whatever business they’re in, especially if they’re self-employed), you wouldn’t simply walk in, take your coat off and say, “Hey, I’m selling something, come and talk to me.” Right? I mean, that’s what you don’t want to do with marketing. You want to start by building a relationship. Can you talk a little bit about that? 

Craig: I think it goes all the way back to Dale Carnegie’s How to Win Friends and Influence People. People do like to talk about themselves. And so the first thing is you should be listening. That was one of the first things I learned in marketing client service. You need to ask questions and learn from your clients. Focus on what they need, as opposed to talking about yourself. You really want to establish a dialogue with them about their wants and needs and hopes and fears and everything else. Then you can talk about how you can address them. But nobody wants to go in and all of a sudden have you sit down and say, “Here’s my PowerPoint about me and what I’ve done.” It should be more of establishing, from the very beginning, a relationship of openness with folks. Then, after hearing from them, you can say “Well, here’s how I think I can you and here are some ideas that I have that I could share with you.” So I think a key thing is really listening from the very beginning.

Bunny: I even found that to be helpful when I used to first go on listing appointments. I was so nervous that I would sit down and I would immediately try to book an appointment. You know, if you’re not in real estate, a listing appointment is just like sitting down with a prospective customer. I would be so nervous in the beginning and really coming from a place of scarcity where I thought, “If I don’t get this listing, I’m not sure I can pay the rent next month.” And if you’re coming from a place of scarcity, you’re likely to self-sabotage. But that’s such good advice because things changed when I finally learned how to sit back and listen: “I’m here to help you. Tell me what it is that you need. Talk to me.” It’s so powerful to give a client time to talk to you. And I think people forget to do that, right?

Craig: Yeah. And I think sometimes we do it because we’re afraid. What I’ve learned so much over the years in business working with people is that people are terrified of silence, so they will immediately start talking. If there’s a second of silence, you jump in and start babbling. Lord knows I do it. But if you just let somebody talk and let it sort of sit there for a second and not just try to be filling in all the time. It drives me crazy when people are doing that. It’s much better if you can have the client talk and then ask some more questions and then be warm and reflective about it. Back to the Dale Carnegie thing, I think one of his first points was if you’re at the dinner party, ask people about themselves. Most people do like to talk about themselves. So ask them and don’t just start talking about yourself. 

Bunny: I think that even people who would say, “I don’t like to talk about myself,” really do want somebody to ask them and listen to them.

Craig: Yeah. And it’s not just asking them to go on and on. It’s more meaningful questions about, for example, why they decided to move here. Just those kinds of questions that get them thinking. Growing up in materialistic Dallas, the joke was that the questions at a party were like, “Where do you live? What do you do? What do you drive?” And so it’s not questions like that. It’s asking them more about their life experience,

Bunny: You just brought me to another completely different point, which is for any realtors out there listening: I think it’s really important to convey to your clients how grateful you are for where you live. I mean, if our lifestyle is such a selling point, don’t you think you should share that?

Craig: Oh, yeah, exactly. I mean, living in Santa Fe there’s so much beauty. I’m looking out my window right now at the beautiful blue sky. When I leave my house in the morning and I see the mountains, and then when I’m coming home at night and the sun is setting over the mountains and I see all the different colors and everything, it’s just breathtaking. It’s great to live in such a great and wonderful environment and in a place that is very spiritual, going back with the native Americans—respect for the earth and nature and all of those things—I think it does help center us more than a lot of other places.

Bunny: How do you convey that to your clients? I know you’re doing something really cool online that’s different from some other realtors.

Craig: Well, I’m not just posting on my Facebook page,” Hey, I just sold this house or just sold that house.” Well, that’s great. But I’m more talking about new experiences in Santa Fe: new restaurants, or a new place to go hiking, or something exciting that’s happening at one of the museums or things like that—enthusiastically talking about the experience of living in Santa Fe. And if down the road, by the way, you’re looking at this stuff and you decide you want to buy a house here, I would love to help you. But it’s more about conveying the reason why we all want to live here

Bunny: And tell us about your blog, because I think it’s amazing.

Craig: So I created this blog, which is called Santa Fe Scenes. It’s that same kind of thing where it’s just talking about having fun in Santa Fe. One of the things was, you know, we’ve got the old Santa Fe trail and we’ve got the old Pincus trail, but did you know that we had a Margarita trail and a Chocolate trail? Stuff like that. Just being whimsical about it and talking about some of the things are unique about the city and sharing my own passion for Santa Fe. I was very fortunate to be able to do a lot of international travel for my job. I was grateful for the opportunity that I was given to see places that I wouldn’t have seen otherwise from Bogota to Sao Paulo and Rio de Janeiro and Beijing and places like that. So I’ve always been enthusiastic about travel and now living in such a beautiful place like Santa Fe, I want to share that enthusiasm with people.

Bunny: And you’re getting some good feedback on that I bet, right?

Craig: Yes, I am. I’m getting good feedback on it. It’s been a wonderful thing to reconnect with friends who are saying, “Good for you, you old dog! You’re back out there trying something new.” Because whenever someone says, “Oh, you’re a new realtor,” I say, “Well, I’m an old new realtor. I’m 61 and I’m starting this for the first time.” But it’s been great from that perspective and the support that you get from your friends. Then people are saying, “Oh, well, I know somebody who might be interested in sending you that information.” I think that’s one of the positive things that social media has done where we’ve been able to reconnect with so many people that we might have completely lost touch with.

Bunny: Oh yeah. I did a post not very long ago about how grateful I was, and it was in the middle of all the fear over Facebook and Twitter. And I just said that it’s such a great platform for reconnecting with cousins that I haven’t seen since I was six. I mean, I just turned 60. I’m an old dog and this is a new trick for me, but I think that if you use it the right way, it’s a real gift. I also think there are so many realtors, like you said, who just post either pictures of houses that they have listed or their accomplishments. And I think they’re really missing an opportunity.

Craig: Yeah. Because then you’re just talking at someone. You’re not sharing information and excitement about things with them. People don’t want to look at that stuff. They want to look at things like the fact that there are like six great chocolate tiers in Santa Fe. And then the next time I’m in town, I want to go to each one of them. Or discovering an amazing new hiking trail or a beautiful image of a shop window or a piece of art or something like that. 

Bunny: Yeah, it’s so much better than “I just listed this house at 123 main street. Don’t you wish you owned it?” Exactly.

Craig: Exactly. I think more people would react to it. I’d really like to have some of that green chili chocolate over at The Chocolate Smith or whatever. It’s much more interesting than a picture of a kitchen that has granite countertops. Oh my goodness.

Bunny: And, you know, Craig, I found that people will call me and they’ll say, “Well, I’ve been following you on Facebook for two years. And I feel like you’re my best friend. I think you’d be the right person to show me around and help me find a house.” And I bet that’s happening to you too.

Craig: Yeah, exactly. It’s funny, you mentioned that. One of the people I’ve been mentoring told me a story about how she posted a lovely picture of herself and then somebody called her and said, “I feel like I already know you because you just look like a nice person and I feel like I can trust you.” I think also that it’s our eyes and our smile and everything that conveys so much of what you’re talking about. If you have a spirit of gratitude and service and a sense of abundance, not scarcity, it shows in your face, your eyes, your smile, and your whole persona.

Bunny: Well, we’re going to have to wrap up here in a minute, but I would love to hear if you have just three great tips that you would give to somebody who feels kind of stuck in their marketing. It could be what you’ve learned in 30 years or in the last three days, whatever it is.

Craig: I think one is changing your question from “How do I market myself?” to “What can I do for this client?” or “What can I do that’s going to excite the people? How can I make them feel appreciated and valued?” And this can work in cases where you’re actually working one-on-one with a client or cases where you’re trying to figure out how to promote what you’re doing. How do I find ways to surprise and delight people? So I like to do that with social media buys, where you come up with quirky, little things to talk about that are authentically Santa Fe or a funny picture of my dog or something like that. You want to put a smile on people’s faces. And social media gives us so many opportunities to be able to do that in ways that we couldn’t before. So the main thing at the end of it is to put your client first, and then I think everything else will come from there.

Bunny: You’re absolutely right. I think as long as your passion is helping people, then success is just a natural by-product of that.

Craig: Exactly. People feel that energy and then they want to tell their friends about you.

Bunny: What I’ve found is that people want to be able to trust somebody, especially in this business where they’re making possibly the biggest purchase of their life.

Craig: Right? I’m thinking back to these younger clients. We were touring houses, and they were interested in one particular house and I was like, “No, I’m not going to let you buy this. This is not the right move.” And I think all of a sudden they’re like, “Wow, he really cares. He’s not just thinking ‘Tick tock, tick tock. We’ve seen three houses.’” This is not House Hunters International where there are the three properties and you have to buy one. So again, it’s not a transaction. It’s a journey. It’s a relationship.

Bunny: I think that’s the most important tip for somebody to take away. Whether you’re selling widgets or earrings or house cars or houses, this is not a transaction. It’s a relationship. We want people to trust you and come back over and over. I don’t know how you can love your job if you’re not doing it the way we’re doing it.

Craig: Yeah, exactly. And have fun with it. We get to meet interesting people all day long. We get to see things. We get to use our own creativity to express ourselves. I know there are people that are in jobs that don’t have that. But I also read things about  the janitor in an elementary school who takes real pride in what they do, and they are going to do the best job that they possibly can. So I think in almost everything, you can come at it with a mindset of “How can I make this a great experience for me and for others?”

Bunny: That’s great stuff. Tell us where people can find you and where they can find your blog.

Craig: Well, probably the most fun thing I’m doing is the Santa Fe Scenes blog. 

Bunny: Okay. And we’ll share that on the information page for the podcast. And then, of course, if people want to buy a house from you, they can find you through there?

Craig: Yeah. All my information is on there. So one stop shop.

Bunny: Craig, I’m so excited that you were here. This was fun. I think we could do it again.

Craig: Yeah. Yeah.

Bunny: Because I think this is the place where people get stuck. People who are self-employed get stuck in this part. And so I think there’s a lot of stuff that we can talk about.  But I’m of course really grateful that you agreed to talk with us.

Craig: Oh, thanks. It’s been a lot of fun. I appreciate it. 

Bunny: And to everybody else, thanks for being here. This is once again, the Lifesaving Gratitude podcast. I’m Bunny Terry. You are welcome to go to my website if you’d like to learn more about me and about buying my book, which is all about gratitude and how gratitude helped me kick stage four cancer’s ass. And we’d love to have you follow us and subscribe on spot Spotify, Apple, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Thanks so much, Craig.

Craig: Thank you. Next time.