45. The Power of Gratitude: Hermione Sihuka

Bunny: 0:07

Welcome to the lifesaving gratitude podcast. This is Bunny Terry , and I’m joined by my co-host and producer Johanna Medina. Our guest today is Hermione Sihukai. Hermione is a business strategist based in the UK. But this podcast is not so much about what she does professionally as what she’s learned to do. Personally, I will say that she she’s devoted herself professionally to helping businesses align with their purpose which is , which is important work. And I get the impression that she’s really devoted to aligning with her own purpose. And I found Hermione really fascinating because she’s so young, but she’s seems to, so have it together, what’d you think to Johanna?

Johanna: 1:02

Yeah, I thought it was a very interesting conversation and yeah, definitely. I mean I really enjoyed, especially, you know, coming from my perspective, like her thoughts on parenting and how she’s raising her two daughters. So yeah, I think it’s , it’s a good episode to talk about the power of growth and, and just learning, like how kind of, I think, I guess what I was thinking was that I know a lot of our listeners, you know, we talk a lot about gratitude, obviously the name of the show, but some people might not be like as experienced with a gratitude practice or they might not be totally bought into it. And Hermione really speaks to that because she, she talks about how she had to kind of learn that , you know, gratitude is something that you can wake up with every day , even if things are hard and, you know, she, she came from the totally opposite end of like, oh, I don’t even, I like kind of like, I don’t know how to put it like, just not bought into gratitude. Like, “oh, this is hokey,” or this is not gonna, this is what’s the point of this. And then she actually did start it. And it was hard for her at first, but she talks about how like what a big impact gratitude has had on her life and now on her, her kids’ lives too

Bunny: 2:29

Well. And she, she suffered some childhood trauma. And I, from our conversation, I mean, she made it clear that there was a point in her life, especially as an adolescent and into her early twenties when she was really angry. And , she, it it’s almost like she was not willing to give gratitude a chance because, but because she, she just said, I didn’t get it. I just didn’t get it. And it didn’t make sense to me given my background. And she was , and she was really Frank about her experiences. And, and then she had this transformation from just the tiniest starting steps.

Johanna: 3:15

Yeah, I think, thank you. That’s you put it better? What I was trying to say. Yeah. She was just kind of yeah, didn’t believe in it at first. And then now, honestly it sounds like even from becoming a parent is really when it sparked her gratitude and how that kind of changed her mindset. And , so I think if any of our listeners are kind of in that place too , like , I kind of get the gratitude good , but not really , willing to add it into their lives really, as a daily practice. I think this, her mind is a great guest to help you with that.

Bunny: 3:51

Well, and I would, as always, I ask our listeners to stay to the end, but especially the, the things that she’s teaching her children, we talked and, you know, I have a lot of conversation with a lot of people about gratitude, and I’m always, you know, this is reaffirming, reaffirming, the beliefs, the belief system that we have with this podcast. But when she got to those pieces about her kids and the whole flashlight beam piece and about focus. I don’t wanna give it away, but I have used that as an example, since we recorded this podcast, probably a dozen times with other people, because it applies to adults too, if you, if you figure that piece out, and there’s nothing else you get from this podcast, that is totally worth it, but it, but it’s a great podcast and she’s a really good guest.

Johanna: 4:44

Yeah, exactly. That is such a good piece. I almost forgot about that too. So definitely stay till the end. You know, we wanna give a slight content warning that Hermione does mention some abuse , that she endured as a child, but really that that’s such a small of her, her story. Of course, we don’t wanna, you know, belittle or, you know, negate that, but just to let people know that that’s part of it and then, but there’s so, so many great parts of this episode.

Bunny: 5:14

We’re excited to have Hermione. I hope we work it out where she can come back because I know she has a lot more to share. And so stick around. We’re so grateful that you’re here. We are grateful to everybody who’s following us. Who’s downloading us, who’s reviewing , anywhere that you find podcasts, the lifesaving gratitude podcast is there. And we’re just thanks for checking in My guest today, Hermione…. wait a second. I’ve gotta say that differently. Sihukai, did I say that correctly? Perfect. Oh, perfect. Perfect. And her Hermione is coming to us from the UK. So I so appreciate , your generosity in showing up to record this podcast when it’s late evening at your house. But , we were so excited by your profile and by , what you do for a living part of which I don’t completely understand, but what I wanna do is you tell us, who you are and what you do so that our listeners know exactly what a treat they’re in for.

Hermione: 6:27

Absolutely. Thank you very much for having me. I’m I’m really excited. So, yeah. Okay. So my name is Hermione Sihukai and I basically a turnaround business mentor . So I focus and specialize on working with businesses that have a mission. They have something that they want to bring into humanity, either to improve it, to change it, to enhance it, leaving like a positive, you know , impact. And so I basically am looking for businesses that are , already established that they’ve been going like for like say 12 months. And then they are not quite in alignment with what they kind of, their intention their goal was. And so my job is to come in and put them together, align the business owner with their business to make sure they’re working together so they can have the impact that they want to have. So that’s kind of… the nutshell

Bunny: 7:18

So just let me be clear. So if they have a certain vision.

Hermione: 7:22

Yes.

: 7:26

An d I would, and, and I suspect for, for doing good for having a positive impact on the world, but their business practices don’t align with that. You’re the guru who makes, who helps them get to that place.

Hermione: 7:39

Yeah, So let’s say if we think of it, like an intention, so when you kind of set your intention, it’s like you create a seed, right. And in that seed is everything that is gonna grow. So if your intention is like, I wanna start this business because I realize that there’s there’s a gap in the market, but I wanna start this business because I realize that the item that I wanna bring with it’s a product or a service is gonna positively impact. So you have that understanding, you have that consciousness, and then, you know, you’ve started creating it. You’ve got your mission, you’ve got your vision. You’re going along. You know, you’ve got your clients, you’ve got your customers. And then you are realizing that it’s not, it’s just not working somehow. You are stuck somewhere and it’s not making sense to you. It tends to be for these types of instances where I will be of assistance and be of like, benefit to them is because the business owner won’t be aligning with the business. So it’s always like you’ve planted a tree and you just need to garden it and water it and look after it. But maybe you are using the wrong, you know, you are using the wrong manual. So you might have planted a lemon tree and you treating it like it’s a plant or a flower. Do you understand what I mean? So it’s,

Bunny: 8:46

I do. And do you think that’s true of a lot of businesses? I mean, do you find that that’s happening with a lot of businesses?

Hermione: 8:54

I could say that we tend to go off track. Like I can use my own experiences when you start a business, you sometimes just have that really pure moment. You know, when you are so excited by something and you are like, oh , like the world needs this. I just need to go out and make it. And off you charge, you know, off you go down that road. And then along the way you kind of get like, oh, and I could also, I could sell this product and, oh , they’re , they’re offering this and I could offer it. And then you suck like compiling all this stuff because you , you just, you are so excited. You’re so enthusiastic. And then you, you can just get pulled in all these different directions, because, and so you start to go off of the original plan, you know, the initial, like kind of intention, the outlay . So it’s really important that if your business is to, and if your business is to change and make an impact, that the things that you are bringing in, the products and services you’re creating actually are right for the business. Right ? Me personally, I’m a person that really values and right , really , is into consciousness. So like growing the mind and , and growing and expanding one’s self and being a bigger person and really connecting with that. Like, I dunno , say, let’s say the , I was trying to think of words that I could change it to, but like the highest intelligence that we all have inside ourselves. So I see it, like when you create something like a business, it has it’s, it’s like an own entity. So it has its own energetic vibration. It has its own consciousness. So as a business owner, your job is to nurture that and bring that out of it. Almost the best example I could give is if you had a child, it’s not your job to come and put all of what you want your child to be on your child, it’s your job to nurture your child, to allow what it already is to come out. So that’s the, the bit that business owners can sometimes do is start to put, well, I want this business to do this, this and this. And now I don’t have a lot of money and maybe their fears come up or their lack, and then I need it to do this. And it’s like, okay, but you created this business to do this. So if you want to do these five other things, they might be different separate businesses. They might be branches, but you’ve gotta make sure it all aligns with the right vibration and the right intention and the right consciousness of that business. So yes, I do find sometimes for people go off track, I can’t say everybody at all, but sometimes it happens. Yeah.

Bunny: 11:04

Well , I , well, I just think in my own experience, it’s so easy to be distracted ,, by something that looks you know, it looks like the next new thing. Yes. And , it’s the same way. I coach business owners on , mostly marketing, but it’s really more about connecting and we will talk about every one of my clients. I will say one of the things that I want you to do is choose , something , a charity or an organization that your business wants to support. Yes. And I see business owners frequently say, well, well, it was dogs. You know, it was the humane society, but now I wanna do, you know, I’m involved in a nonprofit for cancer victims. And it said , well, we wanna add that. And I’m like, wait , wait . I mean, I , it seems that focus is in short supply when you have a business. And I think that’s tricky and I’m, I’m interested to hear when, if we have time some as stories that you’ve had with businesses, but I also wanna know about, cause we talk about gratitude here. Yes. So tell me about that piece of your life and, and maybe, and maybe that plays into the business that you have as well. But I really wanna know about the gratitude piece. Absolutely. Because that, to be what our listeners love the most is

Hermione: 12:35

The power

Bunny: 12:36

Of what’s your gratitude strategy. Yeah,

Hermione: 12:37

Exactly. So apart from like having my own business, I’m also a parent, so I have two children and I also have a dog. He’s a rescue dog. And I just, like, I had him for over a year and I just, I love being a dog parent. I just, it’s amazing. So for me, I’m 37. So my journey like started out in my life. I just, I’m one of six children. And then I’ve got my parents and so, we all just live together and everything. That’s all fine. And then my, I just experienced different things in my childhood that I found really traumatic and really hard. And so as I then got older, rather than having dealt with it, or even knowing how to deal with it or having any of those tools, I just would be, you know, negative towards people. So when I was like in my childhood, so when I was around about two and a half, I was sexually abused, but I just went as in hide it . Like I never told anybody, never spoke about it. Never even recalled it. And when I did finally kind of address it at some point in, in a therapy session, it came up, I was like shocked for myself. It was really weird. It was like, I was so disassociated from this, that really, and then it was just, I then had to, for me, it would be like experiencing it for the first time, like suddenly come to this realization. And then there were other things that like, in my childhood, just at the time my parents, my dad run here, his own business. And my mom was a stay at home parent. And they just, my dad could sometimes be so stressed that he just wasn’t the kindest with his words, you know, and I was really sensitive. So I just took everything like everything in like, okay, that must be like how I am. That must be true. And , my mom , I mean, she had six of us to deal with and we were sometimes a handful. So she , she had like sometimes just a short temper, you know? So it’s this combination of this environment. And then I would just, just not be, I just, it wasn’t a thriving one for me. Like my siblings, a they’re all fine, but for me it was just like, no, this is not my environment. but I didn’t know any of that. So it just, I had a lot of anger in me. I had a lot of kind of resentment. I didn’t like myself. I didn’t see myself worth, I didn’t see myself value. I mean, I’ve done all types of things to improve myself. My ex-husband when we first started dating at one point, I was like, oh, I’m not so good with money. And he was like, oh, you should really read this book. Rich dad , poor dad by Robert Kiosaki . I was like, I don’t really wanna read a book about dad’s. I was like, my one does my head in , I don’t need a book about, and he was like, I know it’s a financial book. And I was like , oh , and I was like 20, 21. I was like, okay, fine. And then like a couple years later he gave it to me and I was like, oh my gosh, this is amazing. And then that led just me to like, learning about there’s another world out there. Like , I didn’t know that people strive to be better. Didn’t know that people could , you could read something and it could teach you something. I was very in this little bubble where I didn’t know you could grow yourself. I just did that . It wasn’t a thing. It wasn’t something that even existed to me. It just , it was foreign. Right. And so then I attended courses and I went to different events and then people would talk about like, oh yeah. And then, you know, you like wake up happy and I’m like, what are you people talking about? Honestly, everything they were talking about was just, it , it was just too far from my reality. It was like, they were like, yeah. You know , when you loved yourself and I’m like this whole room, I just feel like you guys are all a bit KKU , you know, and they talked about inner peace and I’ve just like, honestly, all these things are talking about you . I don’t , I don’t know how to explain someone. I got , I remember being on a course and I remember thinking I want inner peace . It sounds like such a joke. It sounds too far out of my reality. It sounds like someone saying they wanna be a billionaire by the time they’re 21. Do you know what I mean? Like the , it , the, it just sounded just too impossible, but I was like, I want it dunno how IM gonna get it, but let’s go. And then from deciding that, then that just took me on a journey of like, right. I found out, okay, I have to actually address some of my issues. And so when , when I first put myself in therapy, I remember the therapist asking me questions. And literally the, the , the message I wrote back to her was everyone else’s fault. It was like, this one does this. And this one does that. And I was just blaming everybody left right. And center, but I couldn’t see it. I honestly believed if everybody else changed, then obviously my world would be perfect. And so it was just kind of these journeys, these journeys, these journeys, and then slowly as you get on that growth of personal growth journey, and you get on the personal mindset journey and you find out by plugging in daily to stuff, it actually has an impact on your day. I started to realize that I, I can actually change my life and I can actually be a better person. And then people started talking about gratitude and I was like, what do I have to be grateful for? I , I don’t, I don’t know what what’s in my life that I should be grateful for. I mean, I don’t have else. I want, I don’t have the money I want, I don’t have the relationship I want, I don’t have the body. I want, I , I could list all the things I didn’t want, you know? And so just my mindset was very in this place. And but because I’m so on that, like I want in a piece , I was willing to do anything that would allow me to shift that. So I would confront parts of myself and I would, you know, write things down and I would address things. And I would plug in as much as possible to anything positive. And I would go on more courses and I would just keep investing in myself and , you know, anything that would just help me stretch myself a little bit more, a little bit more. And then eventually I just realized that I had stuff in my life. So then I could see, I could see some things I was grateful for, but it wasn’t enough to shift my life. And then, but I knew I felt better when I recognized the gratitude. I knew I felt better, but I didn’t know that it was a practice I should put in more until I came to a point where someone just mentioned to me, they were like, try writing every day . Like the things you were grateful for. And I was like, oh , I like , you know, my first reaction was always a bit like, oh , this is like, oh , okay, fine. And then I just started writing the things I was grateful for. And I was like, oh yeah , she kind of makes you feel good . Like, oh , you know,

Bunny: 18:51

Kind . Yeah.

Hermione: 18:52

Like for the beginning, it it’s such a, you , you have to get your head wrapped around it. You have to almost understand like , cuz you are used to waking up one way.

Bunny: 19:00

Well, I have, I, we just had a client, I , a client, not a client. We just had a woman on the podcast. And she said she 65, I mean you. And she said, I had not learned to love myself. And she said in the middle of this journey and in her journey, she lost a hundred pounds. She got her life back. She really it’s an amazing journey. But she said that one day, her sister said to her, I need feet , write down 10 things you’re grateful for. And she said , it took me eight hours. She said , well , isn’t accustomed to doing that. And, and I think it’s important for people , you know, people listen to the podcast and they’re like, yeah, yeah, yeah , yeah , yeah. You guys, it’s easy for you. But I think it’s important for you to tell them your experience because it’s not easy some days it’s, it’s not easy in some lives to think of one thing, much less 10 things. So it’s, it’s interesting that you say that, but you said it , it didn’t , it didn’t feel terrible to start doing that. Right? Yeah.

Hermione: 20:05

It’s, it’s that shift, you know, at the beginning, when you’re in a space where you, you may not recognize your blessings, you don’t realize just to be alive is a blessing. You don’t realize that to walk around is a blessing to be able to breathe without assistance is a blessing. Like you, you don’t even rec it’s like your , your brain can’t even see those things. It’s almost like you’ve said, well, I I’m entitled to it. You , I should have it anyway. And so though , there’s that disassociation from actually how much you’re blessed and you’re so focused on all that you don’t have. And so your , your , your mind is so focused on what you don’t have. Obviously you create more and more and more of the things you don’t have. And then you’re just in that spiral. So when you add in gratitude, the feeling is so, is so strange. You’re like, you know, I’m grateful for my home. And then your brain’s like, it’s not even the one you wanted . And you’re like, I’m grateful for my home. And you know, it’s like, well, it’s not big enough . I , and you’re like, I’m grateful for like, you know, so there’s this , you , you are trying to like really, you know, you’ve heard this exercise. Someone said, write down the things that you’re grateful for. So you are , you’re like, okay, I wanna do this. And you’s your writing, but you can hear that voice. That’s just everything you want to say. Thank you for it. Wants to contradict you and show you all the reasons why you shouldn’t be happy for you. Shouldn’t appreciate it. You shouldn’t be thankful for. And you’ll just like, I , this voice, I need to sort this voice out. You know, the one that’s telling me no all the time. But I’m one of those people, if I can feel slightly that it increases my level of happiness or joy, then I’ll, I’ll clutch onto it. Like, like this is my life RA that this is all I have, because I’ll realize that if I commit more, then I will see bigger results. And, and for me, because that, that burning desire to have such inner peace , to be able to kind of wake up, look at myself in the mirror, love what I see, love the body I’m in know that I have like value and worth was such. It was such a motivation for me that I was like, if anything makes me slightly feel just like, okay, this is , this is the nice feeling I have now. Then I , I will, I will go with it until I feel like this isn’t working for me. Or once I’ve been doing it for a while , I will stop on purpose just to feel the difference. And then I will re then when I come back to recommit, I’ll be like, now it just has to be a part of my daily life. It’s not an option. So I always play that game. So,

Bunny: 22:32

So, do you think, I mean, this is, this is kind of a hard question, but it’s , it sounds like you had some trauma in your childhood and , and, and certainly suffered some anger at the hands of people who, who, who you, who you’re , who you believe, who are providing care. And, I do think that, well, I don’t think, I know this from interviewing other people that, that kind of trauma kind of creates a wall. It creates a space in your brain that, I mean, to be able to recognize and practice gratitude is a huge leap. Yeah. Massive after that sort of, of trauma, because you’re, you’ve created defenses and you’re like, I’m not, I’m not opening up. I’m not giving anything away. Is that what you found?

Hermione: 23:26

Yeah, I found like , for me, I mean, I know it took me a while , but therapy really helped me understand that. I know my parents did the very best that they could in those moments and the parents I have now, and not the parents I have when I , kids they’re amazing now. And I’m like, where were you when I was growing up? You know, where I needed that when I was growing up.

Bunny: 23:46

There were six of you!

Hermione: 23:48

I know, you know, I mean, now they’ve got a ton of grandkids, so they’re like kind of all at it again at another level. But , it took me, it took me like a really, really long time to understand that no , they genuinely did the best they could. And , I understood that partly from just the more I read, you know , the more I listened to stuff, the more I understood, the more I heard people share their stories. The more I understood, everybody’s really trying. And some people’s trying is terrible. And that’s just how it is. Do you know what I mean? Some people’s ability is not great. But they’re still trying. And even if you can’t appreciate what they did, you can look at the fact that they did the best that they could in that moment with whatever they had experienced. And especially if I’m, if I take like say my parents and that generation, I mean, who was going to therapy, who was talking about these types of problems? Who was , oh , nobody . Exactly. So how can you, I mean, they, they , whatever they went through, they stuck it up and get on with it. And you just had to like March on and go through life and you , and you did to what you did. Right. So I can’t, how can I hold a grudge against someone who didn’t even know that there was another way of being when myself, when I’m waking up and I’m founding out, there’s another way of being, so it didn’t, it’s not like it happened overnight. I didn’t , I didn’t get there overnight, but it took, took some time. And then also as being a parent and how much I loved my child. I mean, like my daughter, I had her when I was 20 and I felt like she was the first person that ever loved me as I was. So even if , I mean, I could cry now, even if I just talk about her inside me, I’ll just have such like a rush of like gratitude and appreciation, because she was the one that kind of opened my heart enough that I was like, someone probably loves me, you know? And that was a huge thing for me. And then my second daughter was like, okay, great. Now you feel like you are loved . Now let’s get to work. And she was the pusher, you know, the one that was like, not good enough. I want her better standard. I want higher . And it’s through being a parent that I realized I’m giving my very best. And sometimes I fall short. So imagine what it was like for my parents. Right. And so then if I take that and I take kind of trauma and I take being unhappy, and I take all the like sibling rivalry, things that you have, and the feeling left out and leathers are all the things, all the little stories that I told myself that then made my whole world. When people tried to say I was lucky, or when people tried to tell me I was beautiful and people tried to tell me, and I’m like, go away. I feel like you just wanna take something from me. You’re saying nice things, cuz you want something? What do you want? I don’t wanna give it to you. So my wall was very, yeah, I had a massive kind of defense system and I was very sharp with my words. If you gave me a small bit of critique or feedback, I thought you were, you were , you were coming for me. I thought you were trying to have a go at me. I thought you were attacking me, was very sharp to then, you know, back at you. And I couldn’t receive you couldn’t give me feedback. I wasn’t in a place that I could hear it. You couldn’t tell me, oh , Hermione maybe if you just spoke to that person, nice . I’d be like me speak nice . Or maybe they should. And then, you know, you’d go off into a whole spiral about what someone else should do. So that place you’ve gotta really wanna come out of that place. It’s not, nobody can pull you out of it. People can show you as much stuff as they want and they can teach you as much as they like. But if you feel I let , like, if you’ve been traumatized and you’re in that space of survival, you , the information doesn’t get through, it’s just, it’s , it’s just can’t get through.

Bunny: 27:13

Well, I, and I think that what people are , what I’m learning is that anger and fear really can’t coexist with gratitude. Yeah. I don’t, and I wanna be careful because I, I do have a friend who is in his , in the final stages of his cancer journey. And I, and I think that he can be angry and fearful and still express gratitude. But I do think that it’s a really , it is an antidote. It , it is. It’s like the anti-venom, you know, you get bit, bit by the snake of anger and , and fear. I , I think that gratitude is the thing that counteracts that and replaces it.

Hermione: 27:59

It really, you can only really process one emotion at a time. So I can’t be angry and be grateful. You know, I can, I gotta pick which side I wanna be on. And so when you, you feel that anger, that just rage you know, if you haven’t dealt with it or , and it comes up in you, the best thing that you can do is search for something to be grateful for, like get your, like, find me something. And I can, I could, before I dealt with my anger before I kind of unpeeled the layers and unpacked it and stuff and realized really where it came from my deep one was feeling like humiliated and feeling like people made me feel ashamed. And so that led me to being angry. Right. And so that was always underlying. So anyone ever said anything to me, the underlying route for me always, I feel humiliated. So now I’m gonna attack. But you just, if you feel any emotion, that’s negative, the best thing to counteract it’s just look around, find something to be grateful for. Like just in your head, just be like, I’m breathing. I’m okay. I’m grateful. I’m breathing, you know? And then slowly you just make your mind search for the things that are like, oh wow, there’s a pavement. Somebody took the time to build a pavement or a sidewalk. I’m standing on concrete. I’m not standing in the mud. I’m grateful. You know, like just small , like you just gotta do everything you can to get yourself to a point of actually, this is good. And then when you are there, you can then actually see the situation you’re in. But if you stay in that negative space, you come from that negative space to make your next move and take your next step and your next , like, you know, your thought and action. And then it might not lead you down a path that you wanted to go down if you had been centered or if you had been calm. So it’s a great way just to you feel like kind of the emotion rising. You’re like, okay, put myself in gratitude and appreciation and then come back around and look at why was I experiencing that? What , you know, where did it come from? What did I feel like was happening? What , what made me react like that? And then you’ll , you’ll be able to deal with it a lot better. And you won’t, you’ll no of one, you’ve put some gratitude into your day, but number two, you also would’ve started to look at where that , that negative emotion was coming and how it was taking a hold, you know, which means you start to break it down and go forward.

Bunny: 30:12

Yeah. So it helps you process. I mean, I mean, it gives you at a , it separates you from the situation. And I , and I like, I like that exercise , of being grateful for even the tiniest things, you know, people, people say to me, oh my gosh, what am I am I supposed to be grateful for the sky? You know, like we have a blue sky. And I said, well, actually, if that’s the only thing you can name it, it really , I mean, gratitude lowers your blood pressure. It evens your breathing. It helps you use it . It helps you get centered. And I don’t think that enough people get that, that if you can just say, like, I , I mean, I like your illustration be grateful for the pavement. You’re not standing in the mud. I have a friend who said, when I have really difficult client, when I have a really, really difficult client, I think to myself, I’m grateful that they’re not twins. Sometimes it’s the only thing I can be grateful for is that there’s not two of them. There’s only one, but I do. People tend to have this idea that you need to be grateful for the big, you know, I’m yeah. I’m grateful and really specific. I don’t think you have to be. I think sometimes the only thing you can be grateful for is the pavement you’re standing on or the color of the sky. It’s a place to start. Right?

Hermione: 31:37

That’s the , you’ve gotta , I , you really do. I think you, you find these moments that you’re in for whatever reason. And when you get to a point where you are understanding that everything is a blessing anyway, that every single person that crosses your path, whether they say something nasty to you or not, whether they hurt you or not, if they’re still a blessing, when you’ve got to that point, it’s obviously easier to manage because you already have that bigger understanding. But while you’re on your journey to getting to that point, you have to do what you can to get yourself in the right place mentally like, and emotionally and spiritually. So when you take an like physical action, when you make a decision, when you, you know, when you go towards someone, you are doing it from the best place. So when you wake up in the morning, I mean, one of the first things I do when I start my day is I just literally thank God, thank the universe. Thank you know, the creator, just that I’m up. I’ve got another day. And when I first started doing that, I was like, I feel like I’m saying, thank you. You didn’t kill me in the night rather than thank you for my day. It was really like, my brain was really like, should I , but if I thank for my day, aren’t I basically saying I should have died. Like , I , I was really, really like, oh , I dunno if I feel comfortable with this. And then, you know, slowly, I was like, okay, I’m starting to understand. Maybe it’s more for a positive rather than I didn’t like . So I was like, okay, I can go with this. But then that’s one of the first thing , like , literally I opened up my eyes and I’m like quick , remember, thank you very much for my day. Thank you. That I am like a breathing. Thank you. That I’m alive. And then I go about, I’ve got like a form of prayers that I do in the morning to, to just go through and then I’ll take my, I have a book by my bed and I just write I don’t list like just 10 things I have. It’s almost, maybe it’s like about an, a six page and I just put I’m grateful for, and then I just list and I make my mind focused just for those few moments on anything. And it could , I sometimes I’m like, I’m grateful for my central heating, you know, I’m grateful that I have gas, electricity, water, then other times it’s like, I’m grateful that I can walk my dog. I’ve got walking shoes, socks, you know, I’ve got underwear or look, I’ve got hangers that I like, you know, it’s sometimes it’s the little things that just, you know, that are so small, but they, they made me happy when I was shopping, you know, like, oh , a special candle or my favorite earrings, or, you know, and then, and then also I’m into things that , you know, my children and, and the family and friends and stuff like this. So , I think it’s anything you , anything you can be grateful for. It is just as long as you go into that of like, that was a gift that was given to me. Someone smiled at me today. That was, you know, I really appreciate that, cuz it made me feel good. So just, it doesn’t have to be huge and you can start with something as small as somebody invented paperclips and I get to clip my paper together off staples that you can be that if that’s the only thing you’ve got, it’s better than having nothing. So

Bunny: 34:24

I love that. Tell me about raising your girls with gratitude. I mean, do you do something conscious with them?

Hermione: 34:32

Yeah. I’m I’m

Bunny: 34:33

Do you guys talk about gratitude? Oh ,

Hermione: 34:35

I’m really like conscious parenting. So , yeah, no. When it comes to my girls, I really just, oh my parenting’s quite strange. It’s not for like normal or regular or done a lot. But I explained to them once I understood for myself, I explained to them , I said, listen, you have your own soul and you are not my soul. And you have come here with your own purpose, your own journey, your own mission, your own life lessons to learn your own experiences . And they are not mine. So I said, there’s gonna be times I’m your mom . And I’m gonna ask you to do something, but inside yourself, you are gonna feel that what I’m asking you doesn’t align with you. I was that you need to learn how to speak up and tell me, because sometimes I’m really coming from a mum place of just like, oh, I want what’s best for you. Other times I’m gonna be coming from fear. Like, what happens if , if you take that road that I taken and something bad happens. And I said, you know, and so I won’t always be coming from the purest place because I’m also human. So if you feel like what I’m asking you to do, doesn’t match up, you need to speak up and tell me. And so I’m very like allow them to do that. And so there’s been several times that they have, you know I’ve said stuff, I’m like, you need to go and study this subject. And they’re like, no, no, no. And I’m like, but and they’re like, mm . And I’m like, okay , you know , like I’ll back down. And so, yeah, I’m very kind of talk about these things to them and explain about grad attitude and things. And I show them, okay , this is what I do. You know what you can do. And so they are, they don’t, they don’t do a grass journal like I do, but I don’t, I don’t make, like, when I learn something, I teach them it, but I don’t enforce it. I just remind them about it. So I’m like , just be aware of what you listen to. First thing in the morning, when you wake up, be aware of the first things you are , you know , you are saying, or my youngest one, because she was quite me and her dad got divorced when she was young. So she had a lot of anger around this divorce. So with me, she lives with me. So she would be very snappy with me, like, you know, it’s my fault. And so there’s a lot of times I’ve just had to like, kind of take her back down from where she was and just be, I said, think of your thoughts in your mind, like a flashlight. So wherever you like a spotlight . So wherever you focus it, that’s what you are gonna believe is happening. That’s what you’re gonna get more of. I said, so when you’re angry at me, it’s like , you feel angry. That’s fine. Talk about it. But just be aware that if you just focus on you on that, you are gonna find more reasons to be angry, but if you focus on, okay, what does mommy give you? What does mommy do for you? What , how do I help you then you’re gonna look for those things. And then you’re gonna be able to find a place to speak about the things that are actually hurting you. So my goal with always just to remember, like, watch what you’re saying, watch your spotlight, where are you directing it? You know, come up with more positive things and then, you know, look, look at things. But they, they naturally seem to be just quite grateful for things it’s quite strange for me cuz when I was that age, that was not my, you know, behavior. So they , they , they’re not really not really children that, I mean, ask me you much , as in they ask for things, they ask for things that they want, stop this, but they’re not like say bratty in it or if they receive things they’re like, oh wow, thanks. I wasn’t expecting that. You know? So they they, they do tend to be grateful, but I do tend to remind them if I , if I hear or see something that I’m just like, just be aware that morning , thoughts, love last thing at night. Thoughts, really powerful watch what you are consuming in that time.

Bunny: 38:07

That’s I want to go back to that flashlight. That’s such a great analogy and it’s something that kids can understand even when they’re four or five years old because they all, I mean, my grandson is 18 months old , his favorite toys , a flashlight. So they all understand that. And that is so true in life that whatever you focus on is going to expand. So by you using that illustration, I think it’s brilliant. I think that , it’s easily shared. I mean it’s easily understood by a child and for you to say, be careful where you shine your flashlight is such an exercise in awareness. And then you say, it’s this , you say the same thing. Once you have shifted that flashlight focus away from the things that are making you angry or unhappy, then you can start to see the space you’re in and you can start to figure out where, but if you’re just sh if you’re shining your flashlight, I mean, I know this from you know, when I am unhappy with somebody who works, you know, like is helping who’s … I had a recent situation at the, this foundation that I’m the board chair of. And I got myself kind of wrapped around the a that’s that’s that’s terminology. You know, that’s never terminology for, I couldn’t get out of the space where I wasn’t thinking about it all the time. And I had to very consciously shift my focus. And then, and then as you say, I was able to stop and say, wait, wait, wait, wait. Here’s now I can write about it. Now I can think clearly about it because I shifted my focus away from it, because at the time it was what you said the while ago, it was a spiral. And the only way to stop the spiral is to interrupt it with something else. So I love that you’re doing that with your children. So that’s, that’s such a gift. That’s such a gift to our listeners to use that illustration.

Hermione: 40:24

Yeah . It’s really powerful. And they do, like you said, it can be understood and if they don’t get it, you can literally turn the lights off, put on a torch and just be like, what can you see? You know, and that is what your mind does. It’s the same thing. It literally focuses on, on where you tell it to focus. And so then they can physically see like, hang on. You know, I can only see where you are shining it. Okay then. So, and then also it’s, it’s another tool we kind of use is in the sense of what you like. If you’re trying to find, sometimes I’m helping my girls find something inside themselves that they don’t want to be there. So I’m like, well, you now have to go and shine this spotlight on what you didn’t want to see. But once the light has shined on it, you know, once it’s visible, it can’t hide anymore. So it will come up. So if there’s, you know, what’s the next thing that you’re working on, it’s now visible, which means there’s, there’s gonna be layers in there. So I’m aware of this. So I try and explain to, like , there’s gonna be, is , you know, could have been there for a while . Might have some co whips on it. It might have some, you know, some stuff on it. There’s gonna be layers. We’re gonna have to go through, but we’re gonna find something. So be kind to yourself as you, you know, discover and reveal this. So the spotlight can be used, you know, for both ones for focusing your mind and also for like, what would you like to focus on now ? Like , you know, what , what result you want. Yeah.

Bunny: 41:45

Well, and you said something just then, and I can’t recall the exact words you used, but oh, be kind to yourself. Yeah . You know, we’re of that generation that your parents were in and we were not taught to be kind to ourselves. We were taught to be hard on ourselves so that we would achieve more. And I don’t know what the statistic is, but we, we were told, you’re told, you know, during your childhood, you’re told no, a, a crazy number of times and it’s training for saying no to yourself all the time. No, you’re not good enough. No, you’re not smart enough. No, you’re not. And, and we speak to ourselves in ways that we would never talk to somebody else never. And so I think it’s I love that you’re teaching them to be kind to themselves. I mean, that’s a lesson for other parents always, always speak kindly to yourself. I wish that I had known that.

Hermione: 42:44

I wish I had known it too. Like I had to learn this for myself. I didn’t grow up with this. I was because my parents were , you know, were like that, it’s true. You’d be tough on yourself. Cause then you’ll get better results, be tough. And one of my messages that I just receive over and over would be, might you be kind to yourself? I was like, I am being kind to myself. And it would literally be in this tone , I am being kind to myself and I still couldn’t recognize that I, you know, I wasn’t. And so I realized that usually, you know, when we make a , what we like as a mistake or we do something wrong, we have our own inner voice that tells us, oh , why did you do that? Look what you opportunity missed out on da , da , da , da . So when someone else comes and piles on top of that, we don’t really need it. I mean, there’s some people that might, but in , if I generalize and just take, like, I don’t know a certain number , you don’t really need someone else pointing out cuz you can already feel it. You already have the inner chatter, like telling you. And so because I knew how I would speak with myself and how like destructive, my thoughts and my conversation with myself was I tried to be, I didn’t always manage it, but I tried to be when they’ve done something that was like, well , I perceived wrong. And I wanted to tell ’em off. I tried to be less like da , da, da, da…. Because I was like, okay , you’ve already got your own voice doing that for you. So I just need to, you know, back off a bit, it got easier when they were older, when they were younger, I found it. I wasn’t in the same place. I wasn’t as aware. But I just tried to be like, okay. And my youngest daughter, she accents things. So she experiences a lot of rejection, like all the time from, you know, like going to roles and not getting castings and stuff. So , she used to cry, like it also used to decimate her at the beginning. And so then I just said, you have to be realize that. Did you go in there and do your best? Yes. Okay. Did you prepare for it? Yes. So was there anything else you feel you could have done? And sometimes she’ll say yes. And I’m like, okay, so now you take that learning for the next time. And then we got to a point to eventually where she’d go in and when she’d come out and then she’d be like, I did everything I could do and I was case and you don’t have to be, you know, doing that to yourself. You can just be like, okay, you did everything you can do. Just let it go. And then eventually she’s now she’s now to say, oh yeah, but at the beginning it was really like, you know, a lot of beating yourself up and not being kind, not using the right words. And it’s all just to me, all of these things, a wrapped up in gratitude and appreciation. I read something today that might be of value was , about a gratitude. And it said, are you wanting things in your life so that you just want the things in your life? So they come into your life and let’s say , you want a new laptops, you get a new laptop. And your’re like, oh , thank you. I’ve got a new laptop. Yay. Or are you, does I hiring things? So you can say, thank you for them. So is what’s your motivation? Is it the item or is it that you want to be grateful? And it was, and I just, it was a really profound moment for me cause I was thinking, wow, we can, we could be asking for things, you know, using our vision boards, whatever it is that we do to, to bring things into our life. But we could be asking just because we want to be able to say thank you and then share. Look what happened to me because how wonderful is this? Like, you want to let other people know that there are blessings or you could be wanting stuff because you feel like you , you want it. Does that make sense?

Bunny: 46:07

It does. It does. And I really like that you verbalized it because , I think that you have to get to the point where , you’re so aware of, of the positive benefits of gratitude that you start, you know, you start to look for ways to be more are grateful. I mean, you and it’s, I know I do that and, and this, I mean, doing this podcast is like the greatest gift in the world because nobody, nobody gets more out of it and nobody learns more from their guests than I do. You know, I thought that this was gonna be a way for us to give listeners a gift and I’m like, no, no, no, it’s me. I’m the one who’s getting it. So it’s not like, I mean, that’s a good example. We aren’t doing the podcast so that you know, we’re, we’re going to get so famous that Ellen DeGeneres is gonna call and say, please come on the show. We are doing it because it gives us another thing to be grateful for. And, I mean, do you just the things that you’ve shared in the last, you know, few minutes have been, wow. I like, I want to sit down with my grandsons who are five and eight years old and, and do that flashlight illustration. And that’s what you’re saying is that you are, I mean, you’re learning a different focus, than you had as a child and as a teenager and perhaps in your early twenties and that’s… Some people don’t ever get that Hermione. It’s, so it’s so frightening that I mean, I meet people and I’m like, I’m so sorry that you didn’t get this and you found it on your own.

Hermione: 48:00

Yeah. It takes a lot of work. Like if I can imagine how, and now I look back and I think, oh , I was a nightmare. I think I must have been for people. I must have been like… I feel like almost, you know , if I see people, I mean, cuz part of my thing, routine is at the end of the day, I do apologize to anyone. I may have hurt during the day. Like it’s like a , like a mental thought thing. So I just like, you know, I like say I pray , you know? And I’m like to anybody that I’ve hurt today. And I’m I’m so like if I’ve judged you, if I was mean to you, if I’ve just thought that like I’m asking for your forgiveness. And also I forgive anybody, that’s done this to me. And so I like to do this at the end of every day because I just like to keep each day separate. And each day in its own, like each day is on its own. I don’t like to make them all run on to each other. So it’s like today is Wednesday and Wednesday is done at the end of Wednesday, you know, Wednesday is not Thursday. So, you know…

Bunny: 48:58

What a great exercise though. I mean, I hadn’t thought about doing that. I’m writing it down because to say it’s the end of the day, you know, my exercises that I usually look at my calendar, I’m like, okay, these are the things tomorrow. I wanna be mentally prepared for them, but for you to close your day by saying you know, I want to apologize for the day if there’s anyone I’ve hurt or any, tell me again how you say that because I wanna be sure I get it right.

Hermione: 49:26

Yeah. So I, for me, I’m just like, I wanna apologize to anybody that I’ve may have hurt today. So you know, through like my thoughts or my actions, you know, all my words. So it’s just, it’s just me trying to cover all the ways I could have been mean . So I could have walked past someone today and I could have judged them without even really being conscious. Like I could have been late and been like, why are you just walking so slowly? And that is enough that I know from where I am now, that that is negative energy that I’ve just sent out. And I’m aware of that now, but asked me a few years ago and I’d been like, how is that impacting anyone? Don’t be silly. They were walking. So , you know, so you learn as you go, right? The more away you become, the more you really realize, okay, everything I say has an impact and we’re all connected. And you , you start to the , the big picture stuff starts to come in. So this is why at the end of the day, I just like to say, you know, please, I I’m asking for forgiveness from anybody that I have sent anything negative to you today, whether it was in thoughts, whether it was in word, whether it was in action, please, can you forgive me? And I’m , I’m genuinely sorry. And then also I like to then say, I forgive anyone. Who’s done that to me because I realized that somebody could have also been walking past me and thought, God, that woman is just so annoying. Just get outta my way. Or, you know, she cut me up or do you know ? I mean, like anything, right? So we don’t always know what’s incoming to us and we don’t always, we’re not always fully aware of cuz we might be focused on something else, how we’ve impacted someone else. So I just like to try and round up my day with just asking for forgiveness so that I can not have anything running. Like I don’t want , I don’t want to

Bunny: 51:07

Like the negative, that negative energy is gone then. Yeah. Right.

Hermione: 51:11

Yeah. I just wanna end it. I mean, there’s obviously sometimes there are things where you’re in situations and something’s bothering you, but it’s bothering you for a few days. But I still like to do my practice of saying, sorry. And then I’m trying to understand like, Hermione why is this still bothering you? Like this happened a few days ago. We need to move on. So what is it, why is it bothering you? What’s it about, you know, and then I I’ll go through, a process to try and understand why I’m feeling that way. But always, I just, the days are not connected. Every single day is a gift and they’re actually separate. They’re not connected. It’s like a whole new.. It’s like being born every day . Like, but when you’re at some certain point, you think you think the years and the months and everything is like, oh yeah, no, no, no. Each day is a gift. Like on its own, like a whole, I don’t know how to explain it, but it’s like being born and then you go to bed at the end of the day and it’s like the death. And then you wake up and it’s again. Yeah.

Bunny: 52:12

I love that. And I hope that you’re writing a book because this is information that needs to be shared and that people need to be able to ponder. I know that you do, we’re, we’re gonna run out of time, but we can certainly do this again. And every time I do a podcast, I’m like, oh no, I want them to come back because there’s so much more to say, but tell, I saw that you do is it a radio show where, where can people find you? Because you’re sharing wisdom all the time, right? Yeah. I do. Are you doing Facebook live ?

Hermione: 52:47

I do. So at the moment, I’ve it’s gonna be starting up again in March, I will just be doing like a weekly room on , on Clubhouse. I do have a radio show and I’m changing it because the radio show I’m doing at the moment is , entertainment based . And I was, just explained to them, I just said like, it’s fun to entertain. I said, but I don’t feel like I’m making a difference. I don’t feel like I’m touching someone’s life. And so it’s fun, but it’s not fulfilling me. And I want to be you fulfilled. So I don’t know if I’m allowed to do a show around, you know, being conscious, being aware and stuff like that. So I don’t really know if it suits your listeners and then they said they will have a discussion and come back to me. So I’m hoping that maybe I can then do some on the radio that I’m on, but at the moment, my show it’s just , that I do it Mondays, it’s weekly. And sometimes I interview people and I bring people on. And as always, I get into the, I get into the, you know, the awareness and mindset realm, no matter what they’re talking about, they could be like an artist . They come on to be like, I’ve got this new song out . And I’m like , so how did you get there? And how did that make you feel to go on that journey? Hermione, stick to the program. So I can’t help, but divert down that path. But yeah , so I do have people come on and that’s on Mondays, but I will be changing because I just want to make sure all the things I put out are kind of align with who I am and what I’m about. But as you said about writing the book, it’s like, I am writing a book right now. I thought that was, I was like, I’ve got so much information. I’ve got to share it.

Bunny: 54:15

Good, good. Well, and , it’s important. I mean, and some people need to have this in a written form so they can ponder it. I do. But listen, I’m gonna tell you , I hope that you, I mean, I know it’s a journey, but I hope that you feel that you’ve reached some level of inner peace because it seems to me, I can see it in your face. I’m sorry for our listeners who can’t see how beautiful you are, but it’s also in your accountants. You know, I believe that the way you look reflects what’s in your heart and, and you, I think there’s some inner peace going on there.

Hermione: 54:53

Yeah, no, I do. I definitely came to a point when I realized, wow, like I actually have value and worth. And it makes, when you have that realization, if you ever thought you didn’t, or you weren’t, you know, in fact like it just, you cry, but you cry from a place of like, wow, it’s just, it’s a real wow moment. And you know, you cry because you are like, finally, this thing I’ve been clambering for like externally. I finally realize I have it in me all along. So it’s a beautiful moment. And so, yeah, and so now I just, you get to these moments and you understand when you cross over from that side where you know, you don’t see yourself as, as something. And when you start to see yourself as something, you then start to see the gifts. And if you don’t see, here’s a tip for the people that are listening, if they don’t see their blessings in their life, if they don’t see the gifts in their life, ask, ask to see them and who , whatever you believe in, whether it’s the universe, you know, creator God like no , your higher intelligence, whatever your, your bigger belief system is asked to be shown where , where you have blessings in your life and what, what are things that actually are blessings? Cause I didn’t even know what a blessing was, cuz I couldn’t see it. Right. So people, I can say blessed now , how are you so blessed ? Like, I don’t understand what you are saying because you just , it’s not even vocabulary that that would, it doesn’t match that frequency. Right? So, it’s like if you don’t speak a foreign language and someone’s speaking for a foreign language, you’re like, I don’t know what you are saying. It doesn’t make sense. So if you are somewhere and you are unsure of like, what exactly do I have in my life? You know, what exactly can I be grateful for? You know, show me, you can ask to be shown and then you’ll get your little signs that you get. Whether it’s at nighttime, whether it’s throughout the day, whether it’s someone coming up to you and saying, oh my gosh, you are so kind and you are so compassionate. And you’re like, oh, I’ve got personal traits as well as, you know , material things . So you can definitely ask. And it’s my favorite thing is that you can always ask for more of what you want. So if you feel like you’re not grateful enough, ask, please help me be more grateful. Please show me more of my blessings. You know? And if you keep doing this, the , the the more will will come up. Yeah.

Bunny: 57:01

Wow. This has been really fun. And I’m really grateful that we connected me and we will, for everybody who’s listening, we will post links. I mean, if you, if this was an inspirational to you, as it was to me, and you would like to talk to her mind about what she can do for your business. I think that that’s, I mean, it’s important work. This is important work to do whether it’s personally or, or in the business that you’re in. So thank you so much for being here. This was great fun.

Hermione: 57:34

You’re really welcome. Thank you for having me.

Bunny: 57:38

That’s all we’ve got today. Friends. I wanna thank you for joining the lifesaving gratitude podcast with your host Bunny Terry that’s me and my producer and assistant Johanna Medina. We feel like we’re in the business of sharing the stories that save us and we hope you’ll share as well by letting your friends and family know about the podcast follow and like us wherever you listen. And please take the time to leave a review. Whether it’s a stellar comment or a suggestion, we are open to suggestions all the time. Also follow us on Instagram at live saving gratitude pod. You can also follow me personally at Bunny Terry , Santa Fe. You can sign up at my website at bunnyterry .com to receive weekly emails about how to become the ultimate gratitude nerd. Thanks so much for checking in.

Bunny: Hi everyone. This is Bunny with the Lifesaving Gratitude podcast. Just in case you don’t know me, I am a stage four colon cancer survivor and the author of Lifesaving Gratitude, which is a book about how gratitude helped me kick cancer’s ass. 

Today we’re going to talk to a special guest about how marketing and marketers can use gratitude to create business and connections with clients and also for themselves to create a really positive way to do their job. But first, I just want to thank you for being here and ask that you download the podcast if you’d like. And certainly subscribe wherever you listen to other podcasts. But enough about me and enough about the podcast. 

I want to introduce you to my special guest, who’s also a friend. Craig Cunningham is currently a realtor with Keller Williams, Santa Fe. And that’s how I met him. However, this is a recent career for him and he was, and correct me if I mispronounce the word, but you were a hotelier. Is that the way to say that?

Craig: Yes. 

Bunny: Yes. He’s spent 30 years in corporate sales and marketing. He’s traveled extensively. I’m going to let him tell you all the places that he’s been to, but he is the founder and principal of Cunningham + Colleagues marketing consultants. He was in the past the VP of marketing and quality for Seaport Hotels and World Centers and the VP of marketing for Core North America. So welcome Craig Cunningham.

Craig: Thanks so much for having me on your podcast.

Bunny: I’m excited. I know you have some great tips for all of our listeners. When I think about these podcasts, I always think about the people that are going to want the information we’re offering. I mean, we’re here to help people and we’re here to figure out how gratitude can make everyone’s life not just easier and simpler, but also fuller. So why don’t you start, Greg? Just tell us a little bit about yourself. Tell us how in the world you ended up in this completely different career? And yet the truth is we’re still just marketers first and realtors, second. Tell me a little bit about yourself. Tell our listeners.

Craig: Yeah. So, as you said, I’ve been in marketing and sales for more than 30 years. I actually started off with an advertising and PR agency and then had the good fortune to be hired by my hotel client at the time, Wyndham hotels. At that time it was a North American chain and it’s now international. 

But from then on, I was in the hotel business. It’s definitely a career where if you are not focused on client service and the whole concept of gratitude, you’re not going to be successful. I always thought of our job as just surprising and delighting our guests and making them feel like they chose the right hotel to be with. And so it was always about waking up every day and saying, “What can I do to make somebody’s day and to give them a great experience?” And, of course, to do this you have to be grateful because they opted to choose your hotel over the million other choices that they had. 

So when I retired from the hotel business two years ago, I was trying to figure out what else I wanted to do with my life. I started doing more volunteering. I volunteer with Kitchen Angels here in Santa Fe to deliver meals to people who are not able to leave their homes. But I also started thinking of whether I wanted to do something else from a professional standpoint and the real estate business seemed like a natural extension, because it’s all about client service. You have to figure out ways to make people feel like they’ve made the right choice in working with you. So it’s all about being grateful every day and figuring out what can I do to help them today. How else can I extend what I’m doing for them in a way that they will appreciate and know that I appreciate them. So that’s what it’s really all about, because of course they could work with a million other other people

Bunny: Right. And let’s talk for just a second. Don’t you think that marketing has changed over the 30 years that you’ve been doing this? I mean, it seems to me that when we were kids, which was back before the crust cooled, we were sort of marketed at. Just talk for a minute about how marketing is different now than it was 10 years ago or 30 years ago.

Craig: It’s funny, because I was going to say the exact same thing. Back in the day, you were running a TV ad or a radio spot or a print ad and it was passive in that you just presented the information, unless you were direct sales. But really with the advent of so much digital media, you are instantly able to forge a relationship with customers through social media, through Facebook, Instagram, where you’re having a dialogue with them from the very beginning. This allows you to work in a much more personal way and to be able to find out much more quickly how you can serve those people. 

So I think it’s changed completely. Before you just sort of put it out there into the ether and hope that something worked, and now you’re able to engage. And I’ve found that so much in real estate where I’m getting emails from folks and then it evolves from the email into a phone call or a zoom call or something like that instantly. I think that’s so much better for both people. Especially for somebody like me who wants to find ways to engage with people and to be of service to them, it makes it a lot easier and more rewarding.

Bunny: I just think about the ways that I connect with my clients. It’s as if you’re somehow conveying to those people that you’re grateful that they showed up.

Craig: Yeah, exactly. I mean, my whole thought is that it’s not a transaction, it’s a relationship. And that relationship can be multifaceted. Once you’ve sold them a house or sold their house, I like to think that we’ve formed a friendship and a bond and that relationship is going to continue. And honestly, I don’t even care if I ever get another piece of business for them. Now think of them as friends. I want to have them to my house for dinner or go have coffee or something like that. 

I think that kind of thing that makes a difference for people in wanting to work with me.  It’s coming from a position of wanting to be of service to them and wanting to make them happy and finding the right solution for them. I’m working with some first-time-buyers right now and I kind of feel like they’re my kids. It’s about, okay, how can I really help them with this? And they’re grateful for the counsel I’m able to give to them, and I’m grateful for the opportunity to work with them. So it’s very rewarding. I think if you approach business relationships in the same way as you would with your friends, it’s a win-win situation for everybody.

Bunny: Well, talking about those first-time home buyers, I mean, that’s one of my favorite deals. You never make the most money from those transactions, but I’m so grateful to be reminded that we are providing the American dream when we’re selling real estate. Yeah. It’s amazing. It’s my favorite experience.

Craig: Yeah. I mean, for somebody to have their first home and to be excited about how they’re going to decorate it and what they’re going to do. And with this young couple, seeing them excited when they see a house brings out all my empathy and makes me want to really go the extra mile for them to make sure they find the right house at the right price for them. And then I just never want to stop. So then it’s like, “Okay, now I’m going to find this person for you to do the plumbing, and I’m going to find this person, etc, and I’ll be with you with you  to help explain things.” I just want to really continue to be of service.

Bunny: I talk a lot, especially on my blog, about Judy Camp, who was one of my first real estate mentors. She was a great friend and Linda Gammons partner for a long time before she passed away. But Judy Camp always says, “If you come from contribution, you can’t help but be successful.”

Craig: Yeah. I mean, just as I was saying, you can’t think of it as a transaction. I think, coming from contribution, how can I help you? How can I make this a better experience? How can I make this work? Because, especially in a real estate transaction, it can be stressful. It’s the biggest financial transaction for the majority of us. So how do you take the burden and the pressure away from them and sort of guide them through the process? I just think the main thing is that it’s much more fun, whether you’re doing volunteer work or in business, to wake up every day and figure out how I could make it fun for somebody else. Because then it’s fun for you and it gets you excited and passionate about what you’re doing.

Bunny: Well, it sounds like our big “why’s” are really similar. I certainly don’t want to put any words in your mouth, but it sounds like your big “why” is just to make the life of the people you come in contact with better.

Craig: Yeah. Of course making money is nice, but there are lots of ways to make money. It’s more about whether you are getting energy from it. And I think you really get energy when you’re working with someone and trying to figure out how you can help them, how you can make their day better, how you can make the service that you’re providing better. And also just doing things that saying, “What about if I do X, Y, Z?” and they’re  like, “Oh, you’ll do that for me?” And I’m like, “Of course.”

I have another set of clients where the transaction was fairly complicated and we were looking at lots of properties. Coming from a corporate background, I love to do spreadsheets and PowerPoint presentations—things like that. And so after about the third thing we had to do, they’re like, “Oh, how are we going to organize all these bids?”  And then one of the guys said to the other guy, “Well, Craig’s going to do a spreadsheet for us. He’s probably already got it done.” So it’s that kind of thing where you’re looking for ways to make their experience better.

Bunny: So this is always a funny question for me to ask, because I have such a loose gratitude practice other than just waking up in the morning and saying, “thank you, thank you, thank you,” and then writing things down, but do you have a practice that you follow that helps you both in your business and your personal life?

Craig: Well, since I came into real estate with Keller Williams, which focuses a lot on being servant leaders and helping people, I’ve gotten into the habit of writing three things I’m grateful for that day. It could be that it’s a beautiful day or a dog or my partner or the opportunity to help somebody or the coffee’s really good that day, but waking up and appreciating what you have in your life is a good way to get in a good mindset for the rest of it.

Bunny: Oh, absolutely. Something I always say is that we kind of rewire our brains. We do. We create new neural pathways every time we say that we’re grateful. So in terms of nuts and bolts, is there a way that you let your clients know? I mean, I find that there are a lot of young people, young entrepreneurs or people who are new to business, who forget how to tell their clients how they’re grateful for them, even if it’s a line in an email. Do you have something that you do specifically over and over?

Craig: I think for me, it’s maybe more in the actions. I think of “This is really going to be helpful if I do this or if I provide this information.” I think it’s always in my voice and the way that I write. I try to always communicate openly and in a friendly and conversational manner. But then I also think “It would be really cool and really helpful if I did X , Y , Z.” I created a whole PowerPoint just on the neighborhoods in Santa Fe, because if you’re out of town it gets confusing. And that came out of a client saying, “Well, I don’t really know the neighborhoods.” And I thought that this would be a great tool for them. So I created it and then I was able to use it with others. 

So I think for me, maybe it’s sort of on the fly. I used to say in the hotel hotel business, “How can I make this a wow experience?” Because the other way to think about it is that every relationship is with people. When you’re in a service business you’re really in the business of creating memories. You can create good memories or you can create bad memory and it’s much more fun to create good memories.

Bunny: And that just comes from a spirit of generosity. I mean, you obviously want this to be the best real estate experience they’ve ever had.

Craig: Right. Right. I’m very grateful for the people that have helped me along the way. I’ve been very fortunate in my career to always work for people who were concerned about my career development and my personal development and became dear friends. And I’ve had a couple of bosses that have hired me twice in two different jobs. So I’m always grateful for the things that other people have done for me. 

So then I want to pay it forward. When I came to Keller Williams and I was introduced to the team here, there was so much openness and willingness to share and help and support. It has been fantastic. What strikes me the most is how grateful I am for what other people have done for me. And how do I pay that back?

Bunny: I mean, this is not a podcast to plug Keller Williams. It’s really more to talk about mindset, but the place where I learned it was sitting in that training room and learning that my mindset was the secret sauce. I mean, that’s the success piece, right?

Craig: Yeah, exactly. It’s not just about production and everything. It’s about weight and having a sense of gratitude and contribution and a sense of abundance. And I don’t mean that in a monetary way. It could be abundance in your health or your friends or all of that kind of stuff. And I think back to you. Your experience with cancer was far worse than mine, but I did have prostate cancer about nine years ago. Everyone I worked with during that entire time when I was going for radiation every day for 10 weeks was so supportive. And then on the last day of radiation, there was this very important meeting, and everyone knew it was my last day.My whole team had a celebration for me on my last day. That was turning something that was obviously a challenging situation into something where I knew they really cared about me and supported me.

Bunny: Wow. I’m interested to hear how your mindset was in the middle of that? 

Craig: I’m just by nature, an optimistic person. So even though it was scary, I felt like I was in good hands from a medical standpoint and I just felt like I was gonna beat it. I had done the education that I needed to and then it was really about having a positive mindset. 

This is probably too much information, but I’ll say it anyway. You’re doing the radiation stripped down to your boxer shorts. And so I jokingly put this Facebook thing about the fact that I needed a new pair of boxer shorts for every day. And people started sending me underwear—different pairs of boxer shorts for every day. So while I was sitting there in the big machine, where you’re sort of in there and it’s buzzing and scanning and all that kind of stuff, it got to be kind of a joke with the techs:  “Oh , what’s he going to be wearing today?”

Bunny: I love that.

Craig: That was a way to keep my spirits up. And also during that process, I really learned how to be very focused. I was in a waiting room with people that were going through, frankly, worse things than prostate cancer. Don’t get me wrong, prostate cancer is pretty serious. It is. People die from it. But I was seeing so many other people that were having a much more challenging time than I was. And we became a family. We all bonded together during that process, because we were all waiting, sometimes for an hour. So it’s things like that. And also things like the kitchen angels service, where it helps reboot you every day for how grateful you should be in your own life and grateful for the opportunity to help other people.

Bunny: Right. There are tons of people who do get what a gift it is. People who don’t even have a specific gratitude practice, but at least an attitude every day that you’re going to figure out something. I just wrote a blog post on limiting beliefs and one of the things that I wanted to convey is that we get to choose every single moment how we view the world. And maybe for somebody out there who’s brand new in business or who’s starting a new business. I just read a statistic that said that the entrepreneur demographics are changing. And now like 48% of new entrepreneurs are over 50. So hooray for the old people! 

But I know that there are people out there right now who are thinking, “Well, I’m not any good at marketing. I’m not any good at that piece of it. I can sell stuff, but I’m not good at the marketing stuff.” I’ve got to tell you, I’m married to a guy who doesn’t believe in self promotion because he came from a generation when you played down your assets, instead of being grateful for them and talking about them. So I’d love to hear what you have to say to somebody who has that limiting belief that they can’t market. And they can’t promote themselves.

Craig: You know, we could all market ourselves, and we do it every day in our interactions.  Whether we think of it as marketing or not, we’re marketing ourselves all day long in how we react and treat other people. The thought I had as you were talking about your husband thinking self-promotion sounds like a dirty word is that it doesn’t have to be you talking  about “me, me, me” and “I did this million dollars in revenue.” This is kind of a turnoff in some ways, because you’re talking about yourself. But if you’re talking about how you can help somebody else and how you can provide a good experience for them with your information and knowledge, you’re not talking about yourself in that context. You’re talking about how you can be of service. I think that’s a much easier way for a lot of people from a generation where we weren’t really supposed to be talking about ourselves.

Bunny: Well, it was pre-social media. Our face wasn’t out there. We just weren’t trained to tell people, “Here’s the reason you should hire me instead of the other person.”

Craig: Yeah, exactly. I mean, now we’re all our own brands on social media. But I think that rather than saying to somebody, “Here’s why you should hire me versus somebody else,” you should just talk about how you can be of service in what you do in an authentic way. Then people are more likely to want to work with you, because you’re radiating a sense of positivity and an interest in them. And they’re not thinking that you just look at them as a transaction and then you’re onto the next person.

Bunny: I frequently use with my marketing coaching clients the example of a dinner party. If you went into a dinner party (and this is for people who are just beginning in whatever business they’re in, especially if they’re self-employed), you wouldn’t simply walk in, take your coat off and say, “Hey, I’m selling something, come and talk to me.” Right? I mean, that’s what you don’t want to do with marketing. You want to start by building a relationship. Can you talk a little bit about that? 

Craig: I think it goes all the way back to Dale Carnegie’s How to Win Friends and Influence People. People do like to talk about themselves. And so the first thing is you should be listening. That was one of the first things I learned in marketing client service. You need to ask questions and learn from your clients. Focus on what they need, as opposed to talking about yourself. You really want to establish a dialogue with them about their wants and needs and hopes and fears and everything else. Then you can talk about how you can address them. But nobody wants to go in and all of a sudden have you sit down and say, “Here’s my PowerPoint about me and what I’ve done.” It should be more of establishing, from the very beginning, a relationship of openness with folks. Then, after hearing from them, you can say “Well, here’s how I think I can you and here are some ideas that I have that I could share with you.” So I think a key thing is really listening from the very beginning.

Bunny: I even found that to be helpful when I used to first go on listing appointments. I was so nervous that I would sit down and I would immediately try to book an appointment. You know, if you’re not in real estate, a listing appointment is just like sitting down with a prospective customer. I would be so nervous in the beginning and really coming from a place of scarcity where I thought, “If I don’t get this listing, I’m not sure I can pay the rent next month.” And if you’re coming from a place of scarcity, you’re likely to self-sabotage. But that’s such good advice because things changed when I finally learned how to sit back and listen: “I’m here to help you. Tell me what it is that you need. Talk to me.” It’s so powerful to give a client time to talk to you. And I think people forget to do that, right?

Craig: Yeah. And I think sometimes we do it because we’re afraid. What I’ve learned so much over the years in business working with people is that people are terrified of silence, so they will immediately start talking. If there’s a second of silence, you jump in and start babbling. Lord knows I do it. But if you just let somebody talk and let it sort of sit there for a second and not just try to be filling in all the time. It drives me crazy when people are doing that. It’s much better if you can have the client talk and then ask some more questions and then be warm and reflective about it. Back to the Dale Carnegie thing, I think one of his first points was if you’re at the dinner party, ask people about themselves. Most people do like to talk about themselves. So ask them and don’t just start talking about yourself. 

Bunny: I think that even people who would say, “I don’t like to talk about myself,” really do want somebody to ask them and listen to them.

Craig: Yeah. And it’s not just asking them to go on and on. It’s more meaningful questions about, for example, why they decided to move here. Just those kinds of questions that get them thinking. Growing up in materialistic Dallas, the joke was that the questions at a party were like, “Where do you live? What do you do? What do you drive?” And so it’s not questions like that. It’s asking them more about their life experience,

Bunny: You just brought me to another completely different point, which is for any realtors out there listening: I think it’s really important to convey to your clients how grateful you are for where you live. I mean, if our lifestyle is such a selling point, don’t you think you should share that?

Craig: Oh, yeah, exactly. I mean, living in Santa Fe there’s so much beauty. I’m looking out my window right now at the beautiful blue sky. When I leave my house in the morning and I see the mountains, and then when I’m coming home at night and the sun is setting over the mountains and I see all the different colors and everything, it’s just breathtaking. It’s great to live in such a great and wonderful environment and in a place that is very spiritual, going back with the native Americans—respect for the earth and nature and all of those things—I think it does help center us more than a lot of other places.

Bunny: How do you convey that to your clients? I know you’re doing something really cool online that’s different from some other realtors.

Craig: Well, I’m not just posting on my Facebook page,” Hey, I just sold this house or just sold that house.” Well, that’s great. But I’m more talking about new experiences in Santa Fe: new restaurants, or a new place to go hiking, or something exciting that’s happening at one of the museums or things like that—enthusiastically talking about the experience of living in Santa Fe. And if down the road, by the way, you’re looking at this stuff and you decide you want to buy a house here, I would love to help you. But it’s more about conveying the reason why we all want to live here

Bunny: And tell us about your blog, because I think it’s amazing.

Craig: So I created this blog, which is called Santa Fe Scenes. It’s that same kind of thing where it’s just talking about having fun in Santa Fe. One of the things was, you know, we’ve got the old Santa Fe trail and we’ve got the old Pincus trail, but did you know that we had a Margarita trail and a Chocolate trail? Stuff like that. Just being whimsical about it and talking about some of the things are unique about the city and sharing my own passion for Santa Fe. I was very fortunate to be able to do a lot of international travel for my job. I was grateful for the opportunity that I was given to see places that I wouldn’t have seen otherwise from Bogota to Sao Paulo and Rio de Janeiro and Beijing and places like that. So I’ve always been enthusiastic about travel and now living in such a beautiful place like Santa Fe, I want to share that enthusiasm with people.

Bunny: And you’re getting some good feedback on that I bet, right?

Craig: Yes, I am. I’m getting good feedback on it. It’s been a wonderful thing to reconnect with friends who are saying, “Good for you, you old dog! You’re back out there trying something new.” Because whenever someone says, “Oh, you’re a new realtor,” I say, “Well, I’m an old new realtor. I’m 61 and I’m starting this for the first time.” But it’s been great from that perspective and the support that you get from your friends. Then people are saying, “Oh, well, I know somebody who might be interested in sending you that information.” I think that’s one of the positive things that social media has done where we’ve been able to reconnect with so many people that we might have completely lost touch with.

Bunny: Oh yeah. I did a post not very long ago about how grateful I was, and it was in the middle of all the fear over Facebook and Twitter. And I just said that it’s such a great platform for reconnecting with cousins that I haven’t seen since I was six. I mean, I just turned 60. I’m an old dog and this is a new trick for me, but I think that if you use it the right way, it’s a real gift. I also think there are so many realtors, like you said, who just post either pictures of houses that they have listed or their accomplishments. And I think they’re really missing an opportunity.

Craig: Yeah. Because then you’re just talking at someone. You’re not sharing information and excitement about things with them. People don’t want to look at that stuff. They want to look at things like the fact that there are like six great chocolate tiers in Santa Fe. And then the next time I’m in town, I want to go to each one of them. Or discovering an amazing new hiking trail or a beautiful image of a shop window or a piece of art or something like that. 

Bunny: Yeah, it’s so much better than “I just listed this house at 123 main street. Don’t you wish you owned it?” Exactly.

Craig: Exactly. I think more people would react to it. I’d really like to have some of that green chili chocolate over at The Chocolate Smith or whatever. It’s much more interesting than a picture of a kitchen that has granite countertops. Oh my goodness.

Bunny: And, you know, Craig, I found that people will call me and they’ll say, “Well, I’ve been following you on Facebook for two years. And I feel like you’re my best friend. I think you’d be the right person to show me around and help me find a house.” And I bet that’s happening to you too.

Craig: Yeah, exactly. It’s funny, you mentioned that. One of the people I’ve been mentoring told me a story about how she posted a lovely picture of herself and then somebody called her and said, “I feel like I already know you because you just look like a nice person and I feel like I can trust you.” I think also that it’s our eyes and our smile and everything that conveys so much of what you’re talking about. If you have a spirit of gratitude and service and a sense of abundance, not scarcity, it shows in your face, your eyes, your smile, and your whole persona.

Bunny: Well, we’re going to have to wrap up here in a minute, but I would love to hear if you have just three great tips that you would give to somebody who feels kind of stuck in their marketing. It could be what you’ve learned in 30 years or in the last three days, whatever it is.

Craig: I think one is changing your question from “How do I market myself?” to “What can I do for this client?” or “What can I do that’s going to excite the people? How can I make them feel appreciated and valued?” And this can work in cases where you’re actually working one-on-one with a client or cases where you’re trying to figure out how to promote what you’re doing. How do I find ways to surprise and delight people? So I like to do that with social media buys, where you come up with quirky, little things to talk about that are authentically Santa Fe or a funny picture of my dog or something like that. You want to put a smile on people’s faces. And social media gives us so many opportunities to be able to do that in ways that we couldn’t before. So the main thing at the end of it is to put your client first, and then I think everything else will come from there.

Bunny: You’re absolutely right. I think as long as your passion is helping people, then success is just a natural by-product of that.

Craig: Exactly. People feel that energy and then they want to tell their friends about you.

Bunny: What I’ve found is that people want to be able to trust somebody, especially in this business where they’re making possibly the biggest purchase of their life.

Craig: Right? I’m thinking back to these younger clients. We were touring houses, and they were interested in one particular house and I was like, “No, I’m not going to let you buy this. This is not the right move.” And I think all of a sudden they’re like, “Wow, he really cares. He’s not just thinking ‘Tick tock, tick tock. We’ve seen three houses.’” This is not House Hunters International where there are the three properties and you have to buy one. So again, it’s not a transaction. It’s a journey. It’s a relationship.

Bunny: I think that’s the most important tip for somebody to take away. Whether you’re selling widgets or earrings or house cars or houses, this is not a transaction. It’s a relationship. We want people to trust you and come back over and over. I don’t know how you can love your job if you’re not doing it the way we’re doing it.

Craig: Yeah, exactly. And have fun with it. We get to meet interesting people all day long. We get to see things. We get to use our own creativity to express ourselves. I know there are people that are in jobs that don’t have that. But I also read things about  the janitor in an elementary school who takes real pride in what they do, and they are going to do the best job that they possibly can. So I think in almost everything, you can come at it with a mindset of “How can I make this a great experience for me and for others?”

Bunny: That’s great stuff. Tell us where people can find you and where they can find your blog.

Craig: Well, probably the most fun thing I’m doing is the Santa Fe Scenes blog. 

Bunny: Okay. And we’ll share that on the information page for the podcast. And then, of course, if people want to buy a house from you, they can find you through there?

Craig: Yeah. All my information is on there. So one stop shop.

Bunny: Craig, I’m so excited that you were here. This was fun. I think we could do it again.

Craig: Yeah. Yeah.

Bunny: Because I think this is the place where people get stuck. People who are self-employed get stuck in this part. And so I think there’s a lot of stuff that we can talk about.  But I’m of course really grateful that you agreed to talk with us.

Craig: Oh, thanks. It’s been a lot of fun. I appreciate it. 

Bunny: And to everybody else, thanks for being here. This is once again, the Lifesaving Gratitude podcast. I’m Bunny Terry. You are welcome to go to my website if you’d like to learn more about me and about buying my book, which is all about gratitude and how gratitude helped me kick stage four cancer’s ass. And we’d love to have you follow us and subscribe on spot Spotify, Apple, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Thanks so much, Craig.

Craig: Thank you. Next time.