46. Gratitude for Vibrant Living: Donna Tashjian

Bunny: (00:11)
Our guest today is Donna Tashjian. I hope I said that correctly. Donna is amazing. She’s a life mastery coach, an inspirational speaker. She’s an ordained minister, but you Donna’s been doing this for a long time. There are lots of people out there who have become coaches. It seems to be wave. And yet Donna has been doing this for 25 years. She is very down to earth. She’s a storyteller, which is one of my favorite things in the world, because I think, I mean, we say all the time on this podcast, Donna, that stories save us. Yeah. And, knowing what our stories are saves us. And so, I want, because this is the first time that you and I are meeting and it’s not face to face, but I think of it as face to face.

Donna: (01:09)
I do too. I do too. Yeah.

Bunny: (01:11)
So tell me and tell our listeners all about you

Donna: (01:18)
All about me in the next few minutes?

Bunny: (01:20)
Well, You take your time. But we wanna hear how you got to the place where you created Vibrant Living.

Donna: (01:27)
Yeah. Well, most people who are coaches say that they had something that perhaps was traumatic in their life. It is funny, the most coaches that I’ve talked to and, or, or people that are helping people like you have had thematic things that’s happened in our life. And, um, when I began coaching, I say that with air quotes, it wasn’t called coaching then. Right. But it was, it just didn’t have that label. So that’s how I’ve been doing it so long. I didn’t understand really coaching to me was football players yelling at, you know, yelling at people. And that’s just not me, but I grew up in a blended family and the blend was a little rough for me and my brother. And so that was adjustment my biological father. I never really knew at all. I knew who he was, but that was it. There was really no interaction. And, but at the age of 14, someone that I knew hurt me and I became pregnant. So we are going back quite a few years and teenage pregnancies under any condition was not. Okay. And so there was a lot of embarrassment, shame hiding, nobody telling anybody, anything and secrets. Um, so at the age of 15, I became a mother. Do you remember where you were at 15? Yeah. So at the age of 15, I’m a mom. I had never had anybody explain to me anything about delivery. I didn’t know anything about the way that women’s body really worked. All of the things that you can look up on the internet were not available. And so, there was a lot of shock, a lot of adjustment, a lot of trying to figure it out. I graduated high school. By the time I was 17, I was fully employed by 18 and had my own apartment by 19. And you have to remember at 18, I have a three year old. So there was a whole lot of figuring out how to overcome difficult situations. I always seemed to be the girl, people were coming to you and telling their problems too. And they would say things like, I can’t believe I’m telling you this. I’ve never told anyone this. And I was always that girl. And so I just began to try to learn how to do what I was naturally gifted at better, how to be able to do it better. And about 10 years ago, my kids are grown fast forward a lot, about 10 years ago. I took a job at a nonprofit cuz I still had limiting beliefs, believing I could do anything on my own. And I worked there for a while, but it didn’t go well management and I clashed and I still remember the day, you know, when things happen, you can remember what you were wearing, what the weather was like all those, you know, it’s like one of those moments. And I was let go of the job that I thought I had put all my eggs in that basket. Disappointment is devastating under any kind and we don’t. And when we think it’s gonna be one way and it turns out another, it’s funny how we always make it about us. At least I did like, what’s a matter with me. Doesn’t anybody need me or want me and all those kind of things. Um, but through that process, I learned how to live vibrantly in a way I had never before. So that’s how, a very short story of how I got to where I am today and how vibrant living was born.

Bunny: (05:18)
And, tell us, tell what is vibrant living?

Donna: (05:22)
Vibrant living is a nonprofit organization whose passion is to help women live to their fullest potential. I help I, the way, the way that I say it is I help caring women rise above the pain and disappointment of life, whatever that is so that they can live to their fullest potential. And in my words, be who God created them to be.

Bunny: (05:44)
Wow. What a, what a great, first of all, what a great mission statement, but also what an amazing vision and, and, and I mean, it sounds so trite when you say it in these, but not, but not when it’s you, how, what an amazing way to rise above the ashes. Like a Phoenix and, recreate what could have been you.

Donna: (06:13)
Well, it could have been awful.

Bunny: (06:15)
It could have been it, you know, I mean you and I know people who say I’m never gonna be a success because of this thing that’s happened.

Donna: (06:24)
Absolutely.

Bunny: (06:25)
Right. And so you make a choice. I mean, you make a choice to have a yeah.

Donna: (06:31)
I had, I think it was last year. Someone said to me, when I was really getting into my story and, and how hard and painful it was on a deeper level. And they said, Donna, you are a walking miracle. And I thank them. And then I walked, turned away and went, this miracle was one decision after another decision after another decision to choose gratitude, to choose hope, to choose joy instead of what it could be, look to what I wanted my life to be like, instead of what other people, there was a lot of negative statements, I’m sure you can imagine of what could have happened to me, the statistics of a teenage pregnancy out well and having a success is not very likely. I mean, finishing high school, all of that goes downhill and living in poverty is normal. So learning how to rise above of all of this is one decision moment by moment by moment and not always doing it well, but getting back up again and continuing to move on.

Johanna: (07:47)
So yeah, exactly. What do you think it was from that even like, just from 15 to 18 that got you to keep going? I know it was, um, decision moment to moment, but like kind of what was driving you because even just graduating high school, like that’s a huge feat to have done with everything you’re going through and that’s impressive enough. And now where you’re at today. So I’m just interested to hear about that.

Donna: (08:14)
Well, the main core is that I had a relationship with God at a very young age. And when I I’m, I’m talking at the age when this happened, I was in total isolation, other than my family showing, being in the same house, there was no internet. There was nobody to talk to. I was totally isolated. And the only one that I had to talk to was God. And I just heard, I kept hearing in my heart, this isn’t the end. This is the beginning. And there was a little, I’m a little sassy is that, you know, I hope you guys can handle that. And I said, I’m just gonna prove him wrong. I’m just gonna prove him wrong. You can say it, but it isn’t gonna be my story. And so begin to figure out what kind of story I wanted to tell, but God was my strength.

Bunny: (09:12)
Well, we’re on the same page. Yeah. We’re all on the same page with that because, uh, we are, I, I just believe that that alone, um, we are not, we’re not enough to master our own survival.

Donna: (09:28)
We didn’t create us. We aren’t causing ourselves to breed. There is something bigger. And I happen to know him. Yes. So, so that was the key. As well, there was a lot, there was mistakes along the way. There was a whole lot of learning. I remember using God’s promises to eat every day. There’s a scripture that says my seed will not beg for bread. I took that literally cuz there were days that it was hard. So, but at the age of let’s see, she was almost three or almost four. Anyway, I met my husband. So we have been married 38 years and he adopted her and then we had two other children. So God is faithful.

Bunny: (10:24)
So tell me about, you have your own pod podcast called you were design for greatness and, and that I’m interested in that title. Tell me, where that comes from.

Donna: (10:38)
Well, I was meeting with the person who was helping me start the podcast cuz as most things in entrepreneurs, we don’t know what we’re doing. We have to find people right. Who knows what we know what they’re doing. And so this particular podcast coach to help me start it. She says, what is the message? She had all these question. What is the message that you want people to walk away with from your podcast? And that’s just what came outta my mouth. I want them to know that they were designed for greatness and that stuck. And so that is the purpose of that podcast. And basically it’s a center of everything I do. It resonates with vibrant living as well is to know that you are designed for greatness. What we misinterpret is what greatness is.

Donna: (11:29)
We think greatness may be, you know, someone who changed the whole world when it can be great to change one child’s life. It can be great to encourage someone and give someone a hug. So your greatness and my greatness is the greatness is just me being me authentically. Me, me, I am a poor imitation of you and vice versa. We weren’t ever designed to compare with each other. It’s like comparing a tulip to a daisy, to a rose. They’re all beautiful. And so that’s what I wanted to come out of vibrant living as well as the podcast is understanding and embracing your uniqueness, finding out what your gifts are, what your purpose are, what makes you happy and do that.

Bunny: (12:25)
I love that statement. We weren’t designed to compare ourselves to others because I think a huge amount of a heartbreak that especially women, but everybody experiences is, um, comparing, especially comparing our insides to everybody else’s outsides and um, comparing, you know, comparing yourself to somebody who’s in the media. And when you said that you’re designed for great greatness and we’ve gotta be careful about defining what greatness is. You know, I see, especially young influencers on Instagram attempting to emulate somebody who has hundreds of thousands of followers. And Johanna sees this because she’s a new mom. I mean she has a 18 month old son and influencer moms are especially difficult to compare oneself to. I mean, it’s nuts that, um, so it’s so just saying you weren’t designed to compare yourself to other people, and you’re designed for greatness. Those are, those are both really powerful statements. And if you’re like us, go ahead. I’m sorry. Johanna, go ahead.

Johanna: (13:46)
Oh, I was just gonna say, yeah, it kind of, it’s amazing. It’s like an amazing counterpoint or antidote to like what the rest of society is trying to tell us right now. Exactly your point. Funny, it’s like Such a world of comparing ourselves because we have all that. Like I was kind of thinking of when too, when you were talking about how, you know, you didn’t have the information about, um, labor and giving birth and being a mom. And, um, that sounds horrible because it is, it that’s a traumatic experience in itself, but sometimes now it’s almost like there’s too much information or too much to say, well, how come my experience wasn’t like that? Or how come my, my postpartum experience wasn’t like that or that other person. So, I just, I think that is exactly like a little antidote that we need right now.

Donna: (14:37)
Can never compare me with pee or poop all over me, vomit and all of those things that new motherhood brings to somebody’s beautiful Instagram feed of their baby doing, you know, gorgeous things. And that’s what we do is we compare those moments. Yeah. As if their baby never does those things and you know, and the sleepless nights. And when you look like you can barely, you know, you look like a Frankenstein or something cuz you haven’t slept in. You’re hairs all over the place and that’s not on my Instagram feed and it’s not on theirs either. And we have to remember what we’re seeing on social media is not real life. It’s the best of the best moments I have seen people take pictures like of a beautiful new couch. And then they pan the photo and there’s toys and peanut butter everywhere. You know, it’s like, but all you saw was the beautiful couch, you know? And so that’s not our life and it’s and whether there’s social media or not that comparing the inside to outside, as you said, we do it all the time because I can look all put together and be falling apart on the inside. And we don’t know what’s going on in the other person as well. Even the thought of comparison, the, the statement I say is comparison kills it. It brings no light. Anytime I step into comparison, I’m killing something that is unique and beautiful and amazing about me.

Bunny: (16:16)
Wow. Johanna did you write that one down because that’s that’s so that’s powerful. And the other piece of it that I just wanna make note of is that, and I know that we, that we do this, we, we talk to a lot of people who have been through a lot of trauma and then I’ll see somebody at a party and she’ll say, you know I kind of feel bad because I haven’t experienced something that is nearly as harrowing as what you’ve experienced. And all I know to say is, it is less about the fire we walked through to me than the impact that we’re creating now. I mean, everybody has a chance to create impact, to have an impact on someone that needs them. Yeah.

Donna: (17:15)
And that’s the same thing as saying, well, I can’t really do anything cuz I don’t have a story like you. You know, or I don’t have what, like you, I don’t have whatever it is like you, and, and so again, it’s the rose, the tulip, the Daisy picture. It’s like, we were not supposed to compare one to the other. How can you, they’re all amazingly beautiful. I’m a flower girl. So as you can see with my logo.

Bunny: (17:46)
And Pictures, nice.

Donna: (17:47)
Yes. But learning to be able to stop the comparison, as soon as it comes out of our mouth, because it’s limiting to what my gifts are. It’s, it’s making me focus on your strengths and I don’t have any, so I didn’t know we were gonna get on comparison, but it’s a good one.

Bunny: (18:04)
Wow. It’s a really good one. And I also think it goes right into choosing joy. Because if you’re always comparing yourself to somebody else who looks on the outside, like they’re doing better than you are, then that’s not choosing joy. I mean, talk, talk to us about choosing joy.

Donna: (18:28)
Well, whatever you focus on, you magnify, whatever you focus on you amplify. So if I’m amplifying the voice that says, you’re not good enough, you didn’t do what they did. You don’t look like they did like they do. If I’m focusing on that, that’s what’s gonna become amplified and I’m gonna feel worse and worse and worse. But it’s a choice. One of the things we don’t often realize is we really do get to choose what we think about. We can’t choose every thought that lands on our head, cuz there’s some crazy ones sometimes, but we can choose what we decide to plant. I’m back to flowers. If you’re going to plant a flower garden, if you’re gonna plant a flower garden, you don’t plant weeds, but they show up don’t they

Bunny: (19:21)
Absolutely.

Donna: (19:22)
They show up and we have to tend our garden. We have to tend our thought life and choose what we want to focus on. Cuz the weeds will show up those limiting thoughts. That negative stuff will show up in our mind. But I’m going to choose what I think about the way that you change a thought is simply speaking something different. If I use this example in my coaching. I want you to think about a pink elephant. I want you to imagine a pink elephant. She’s got long eyelashes. She’s got a pink bow and she is just adorable. Now I want you to hold onto that pink elephant image in your mind. And I want you to say something different. So I want you to hold onto it. Okay. I want you to say out loud, red Fox ahead. Say it out red. What happened to the elephant?

Bunny: (20:19)
She kind of,

Donna: (20:20)
She, yeah. And so it’s as simple as that is. If I’m thinking, well, I don’t have what she has, but I am beautifully and wonderfully made. And I have gifts saying something or just stop. I’m not thinking about that. I’m going to think this instead, we’ll be able to change those limiting beliefs. And every day we can choose joy is not a feeling. It’s a choice, even though there’s feeling attached to it. It’s a choice of my will to choose joy every day, choose things grateful for what can you thank be thankful for when you wake up in the morning, when you go to bed at nine, when you walk through your day, what are you thankful for? Because whatever I focus on is magnified. Do I want more junk in my life? More weeds? No, I want more joy. I want more health. I want more good relationships. And as I begin to focus on that more growths, I have put fertilizer on those plants that I want to grow. And I have, my harvest is different.

Bunny: (21:35)
That piece is something that comes up over and over and over that what we focus on expands. And we had a guest recently, Hermione, who is a young mother and she gave this great illustration. And Donna, she said that she tells her kids when they’re they’re frightened or they’re angry. She says, I want you to think about being in a dark room and you, and I’m giving you a flashlight and you shine it on one thing and that’s gonna be the only thing you see. And that’s, that’s what it is, is when you focus on a bad thought or a fear, if you turn on the light, you can see all the other stuff in the room. But because your focus is only on this small object, then that’s the only thing you’re gonna see. And it’s gonna take on an even bigger life. And I, I just don’t think we teach that enough. Certainly it’s some thing that I only learned in the last decade probably. Is that what I focus on expands. So if I say to myself every day, you know, I’m sick. I’m not gonna get better or I’m sad. I, you know, I have a friend who lost a spouse and she’s, she has a, she’s having a hard time climbing out of that. And she says, I can’t focus every day on this loss. I have to be careful because otherwise it’s the only thing that exists for me. Yeah. And I know it’s a really hard journey. If you’re aware that your focus is what determines Your choices.

Donna: (23:09)
Yes. I mean, absolutely.

Bunny: (23:11)
Yeah. We wanna choose joy every day and then you have this other, uh, and um, you do a workshop called turning your baggage into luggage. It’s a great phrase. What, what do you mean by that?

Donna: (23:28)
Well, baggage to me in my analogy, baggage is, uh, baggage thinking, is this, why did this happen? This wasn’t fair. This wasn’t just this wasn’t right. Maybe even somebody needs to pay, um, blame. All of that is baggage. And when I stay in that, talking about focus, when I stay in thinking those kind of thoughts, the baggage never, never really goes away. Even though we may stuff it and bury it and keep moving. But when we haven’t really crossed it, doesn’t really go away. On the other hand, luggage thinking is I can’t change this, but I’m going to use it to grow and become the best me I can be turning your baggage into luggage is building that kind of understanding and tools to be able to walk through those pain points, those pains and disappointments of our life. And that’s where the title came from.

Bunny: (24:32)
And you work with people who have been through some serious trauma, right?

Donna: (24:36)
Yes, I do. Absolutely.

Bunny: (24:40)
And I mean, I always like to give our listeners a concrete message, you know, I don’t want people to think that we’re, minimizing Trauma.

Donna: (24:51)
No,

Bunny: (24:52)
But I do want people to have tools for moving forward. I mean, do you, when you, when you talk to your coaching clients, are there things that, I mean, let’s start at the very beginning. How do we move? I don’t even know if I’ve using the right terminology. Is it moved past it or learn to live with it? I don’t know what,

Donna: (25:16)
I work with people for a minimum of six months up to many years, so we’re not going to be able to solve it all in a few minutes, you know, but some tools beginning to under is first is I call it building my understanding muscle or superpower. It’s just begin to look for what I can learn and grow through this. You did that as well. And just talking to you, I know you did it’s this and what I call these situations a lot of times are gifts wrapped in sandpaper. They’re not fun.

Bunny: (25:54)
Wow.

Donna: (25:55)
No, they’re not fun at all. Some of them downright stink, you know, I’m not gonna use it some stronger words, but you get the picture as like, some of them just are awful and it’s not to minimize it. But it, when I began to say, where’s the gift, what can I learn? What can I grow through this? Then I’m not camping just in my lingo. I’m not camping in it. I am imagining that I am moving through this. This I’m not building a tent and camping out and going, woe is me. This is what I’ve been through. And we have our pity parties. I’ve had plenty. Nobody ever wants to come though. Right?

Bunny: (26:42)
We’re not well attended. Are they?

Donna: (26:44)
They’re not well attended, but by one person, but it’s began to look for the gift. And so just the idea of looking for the gift, lifts my eyes, if you will, off of my feet and looks up and went, okay, this may, this is awful. This stinks, but it’s no not forever. And so don’t let these moments be your whole chapter, but to let them be a paragraph and not your whole book is what I was trying to say is let them be a part of your book, not your whole book of your life, but when we’re in those maintenance and, and especially you I’m like wondering if it was gonna be the end of your book on what you have gone through. I can’t wait to read your book, but is learning that, that forward thinking helps you to move forward, to have hope to know that this doesn’t have to be forever, that that doing that and grad are wonderful tools to be able to move forward. But I am not stuffing it when I’m doing that. I’m not pretending that I’m okay when I’m not okay. It is actually learning to process those so that I can get stronger and use it for good.

Bunny: (28:02)
Well, it sounds, I mean, the way I I’m interpreting that is that you’re not being, I mean, it’s not toxic positivity. It is acknowledging where you are, but taking a look at where you might go from where you are rather than getting stuck, where you are. I’m, I’m, I’m interested to hear what Johanna us to say about that.

Johanna: (28:27)
Oh yeah. Well, I was just gonna say, um, it’s so hard. I, I know so many people, and I’m in the mental health field as well. So I, I know the importance of, you know, acknowledging the trauma and acknowledging what you’ve been through, but I know so many people that use those things as an excuse and kind of as a crutch and like, well, I’ve been through this, so I don’t, how can you expect me to get my life together? I’ve dealt with this. And so, um, you know, and just continuing to kind of fall back on that almost as, you know, a label, something they really identify with, um, and not being able to pull themselves out of it. So I think that’s amazing. Um, those even, like you said, this is just like a tiny, tiny minuscule portion of what you do, but so great to just get that, get that out there. And it’s awesome that you’re doing that work with your clients.

Bunny: (29:24)
Well, and I always, you know, we walk such a fine line here between trying to help people. And then people sometimes feeling like… I’m just gonna be frank. I said to somebody over the weekend, somebody who was complaining about something, and I said, I’d like for you to go back, if you can, and listen, we’ve done a podcast, a couple of podcasts with a friend of mine who lost her son to suicide at 13. And this is somebody who knows her. And I said, can you, do you have time to go back and listen to that podcast? And she said, please don’t shame me that because my trauma wasn’t as bad as hers. And I thought, I don’t wanna be an amateur. I just wanna help folks. And so I sometimes don’t know what the response is. Other than what you said, is there a gift? Can you look for the gift?

Donna: (30:15)
My response would have been, how did you, how did you interpret me? You trying to find something that could be a benefit to you as shame.

Bunny: (30:25)
That’s a good one.

Donna: (30:28)
I always reply. I always wanna reply to a question with a question because there’s, there’s something that came up for her when she said it. And so I wanna know what that is, what, what was coming to the surface, cuz when stuff comes to the surface, then things can be healed. I love it. When people ask me tough, almost confrontational questions, cuz, I know how to get there. I know how to get to the root of what we’re going on. And so again, it, she was comparing and it isn’t comparing. I was trying to encourage, I, she was airing her pain to the other persons and because hers wasn’t bad enough. Anyway, so yes, it’s beginning to just, it is. I never, I hate.. I don’t know another way or to say it you’ll probably as Christianese “just have faith,” or you know, “just keep smiling,” Or any of those kind of statements because they don’t really help me learn how to actually move through. And so I am not know, quick statements or you know, trivial circumstances or statements, because I don’t know what else to say. I am going…

Johanna: (31:47)
what about like, everything happens for a reason. Sometimes I have a hard time with that.

Bunny: (31:51)
Oh it’s The Worst.

Donna: (31:52)
Yeah. Yeah.

Donna: (31:54)
These are statements that people came up with trying to explain situations that they can’t find another explanation. And so they try to up with statements to explain stuff they can’t understand. And just some stuff that happens to us, we can never understand. There is no why. There is no answer. One of my things is whatever question you ask, determines the answer. So if I say, why did this happen to me? The answer my brain says is something’s wrong with me? Usually something’s wrong with, I did something wrong. I deserve something, something is wrong. And that question never gets the correct answer. It’s never the truth of why things happened. We may never understand why did people lose families to COVID? Why have people lost so many people to cancer? Why we can’t explain why helping people to move through it is is my passion.

Bunny: (33:05)
Wow. Well it’s certainly a worthy passion and talk to us about Life by Design Not default. I love that one. And you know, I’m with Keller Williams. And that actually is we talk a lot about a business by design, not default. And I I’m so interested in that concept. It’s sort of like choosing yeah. It’s like choosing joy. Oh yeah.

Donna: (33:35)
Yes. I was a realtor too with Keller Williams. So it’s like a great company. And life by design. So many of us, okay. Majority of us feel like I just have to take whatever life throws at me, figure out how to handle it and just deal with it. And life by design, teaching people to increase in spiritual intelligence, we talk all the time about body intelligence, emotional intelligence, IQ, you know, intelligence in the brain, you know, those kind of things. But we don’t always talk about spiritual intelligence and it’s coming from the place it’s, faith-based, it’s coming from the place that we are actually a spirit living in a body, having a human experience. Shouldn’t I learn how to live on the laws and gifts that God has placed in the earth so that I can co-partner with him and create life by design. That’s it in a nutshell, which probably creates a lot of questions in your mind, but go for it.

Bunny: (34:45)
Well, no, no, no. What I’m I’m thinking is, it’s just more of making a choice, making a, being conscious as opposed to just unconsciously sort of sitting.

Donna: (35:00)
Well, one of the gifts, one of the gifts that I teach on in life by design is imagination. We’ve all heard of imagination, but what we don’t often realize is that we use imagination more for the negative than we do for the positive. So let’s say your child is out with friends. You haven’t gotten there yet, Johanna, but you will your child out with friends and they’re home. They’re not home when they’re supposed to be and the roads are bad. What does your imagination do? And we do that all the time. We imagine things not going well and it detracts from joy in our life. It detracts from faith. It creates fear. So how do we use imagination? The way that God intended for the positive? Because nothing is more like faith than imagination. It’s just which way are we using it for or positive or negative. And I love that one. I go into that one deeply.

Bunny: (36:01)
That’s so good because, I mean, when my doctor told me I had stage four cancer, I was like, wait a second. I really am the healthiest person in the room. There was, I mean, there was a period of time, when both Johanna and I, I think when our brains went, when we just defaulted to the worst that could possibly happen. And yet there was also this very quick for me, this, this very quick sort of whiplash back to wait a second. Even if my chances of survival are only 12%, that’s the group I’m gonna be in. I’m gonna be in that 12% now. I don’t know if that guaranteed my survival, but it did guarantee my sanity at the time. And so that’s, to me, that’s, you know, it at least guarantees your sanity. If you can start to imagine life..

Donna: (37:06)
Past it

Bunny: (37:06)
Differently than the default. Yes.

Donna: (37:09)
Imagine life after cancer, as opposed to not, it increases your odds. It creates the potential of you living longer. There is so many scientific studies of the power of the thoughts and the mind in different situations, no matter what the trauma is. And so this is one of my favorite things that I’ve created is this particular program, because it transforms so many things is that we have defaulted to I personally think a doctor should never tell you a time limit because that creates a belief in people’s minds. To me, it’s just like, oh, just give people hope, but I am a messenger of hope. I always wanna give people hope

Bunny: (38:03)
Well, and somewhere I hope that I hope I’m right. Somewhere I saw on your website, something called from frazzled to freedom. Did I see that somewhere? Did you, did you write that can, because everyone, I know, feels like they’re frazzled. And I wanna hear about and frazzled to freedom. How does, how does,

Bunny: (38:24)
What’s Your approach?

Donna: (38:25)
It is a free ebook on my website, so that is available. And it’s a free book. And so it is a book that I’ve written and there’s another one on the homepage. There’s two free books that are eBooks that are available for you, um, listeners and anyone who’d like it. But frazzled to freedom is it was written before COVID believe it or not.

Bunny: (38:50)
Wow.

Donna: (38:50)
But you know, frazzled, isn’t something new. Frazzled is, overwhelmed. Basically, if we it’s just using another word for overwhelm. One of my coaches said to me, once when I called her in tears, feeling overwhelmed about stuff in general, and this is one nugget that’s in the book that I’ll give now. And it, she said to me, I, I think I was looking for somebody to hug me and say, it is so bad. I’m sorry, you’re having it so hard. You know, I think I was looking for that, but she’s just, matter-of-factly said to me, in this matter of fact, voice didn’t have much sympathy in it. Donna, do you realize that when you are in overwhelm that are picturing things failing and not going well, and it took my breath away. I’m like what she says, when you are in overwhelm, you are picturing, you’re not gonna get it all done. You’re not gonna do it. Right. You’re gonna fail. You’re not gonna be whatever you think you should be. And the power of over. Isn’t what I’m imagining in my mind. And so if you think about anytime you felt overwhelmed, see if it’s true for you. It was true for me is I was imagining it not going well and beginning to choose and say, I’m going to do what I can do today. Choosing way, choosing gratitude, do what I’m able to do today. Instead of looking at my entire to-do list, women always have more to do lists than we could get done in a year, let alone a day. And instead of looking at my whole to-do list, what do I need to do at this moment? What do I need to do now? And then do that again in a moment that, and picturing you being, one of the things I’m hearing is you’re not a bad mom. You’re a great mom. You didn’t fail all of the things that we pictured. There is so much in the young motherhood stages of feeling like we’re not gonna do enough. And I did that at 15.

Donna: (41:00)
Wow.

Bunny: (41:02)
Wow. I can’t imagine. Did you have help? I mean, did you, did somebody in your family step in?

Donna: (41:10)
I lived with my parents and other siblings, when she was little, but I was home all alone, all day long. So they went to work and then came home in the evening. So no, not much help. My mother kind of had the attitude is this is a, you know, this is your deal. You gotta deal with it though.

Johanna: (41:32)
It’s so hard. I mean, whether you’re 15 or, you know, or especially at any age, like it’s hard to be all alone. And then especially like, if you, oh gosh, just so much, you know, you don’t know what you’re getting into. So that’s amazing.

Bunny: (41:51)
So, and the other book, the other ebook you have is an umbrella on a sunny day, right? It’s a great title. What’s that about?

Donna: (42:02)
Yes, It is[about] when we’ve experienced some type of trauma in our life, especially if it happened young that we are always preparing for the other shoe to drop example, if it’s sunny outside, I better bring my umbrella cuz I know if it doesn’t rain on anybody else, it will rain on me.

Johanna: (42:21)
Wow. That’s yeah. So true. And always preparing for the worst.

Donna: (42:29)
Yeah. Always preparing for the worst, always preparing for the other shoe to drop. So in that I tell my story that I’ve shared a little bit of today. And so then some tools to be able to not do that, to actually begin to expect good as expecting somehow I’m gonna be, get the short stick, that kind of mindset. And then it also has stories of other women I’ve worked with. So women, other women sharing their Stories.

Bunny: (42:56)
Well, I wanna get that. And so I want.. You’re offering different workshops. Are those ongoing, do those have a, a specific timeline because I want people to be able to find you and, tap into your, I mean, that’s some amazing strength.

Donna: (43:16)
My Turn Your Baggage into Luggage will be about every other month. The next one, I don’t know when this is air airing, but the next one is February the 22nd. And then there will be another one in may. So whenever this one happens to come out, but all of that will be on my, a website. There is a tab that says, turn your baggage into luggage workshop and you can click on that and find out when it is, it will be updated

Bunny: (43:43)
Well. And if people are looking for private coaching, do you still have some space?

Donna: (43:49)
I do have some space available. And what I recommend is if you’ve been through some things and you’d like some help and support schedule a complimentary consultation with me, if I don’t have the resources I’m connected with people all over the world, I will find the resources to be able to help you so that you can move forward.

Bunny: (44:12)
Donna it’s it’s been such a treat to talk to you and, I Johanna and I always go away from these podcasts saying, wow! I don’t know if anybody, well, I do know that it’s impacting our listeners, but it’s changing our lives to have these conversations. I’m so grateful. Of course. Yeah, yeah.

Johanna: (44:35)
Yeah. It was so lucky to get to talk to you. Thank you so much.

Donna: (44:38)
It is my pleasure.

Bunny: (44:40)
And we’re gonna post all your links so that people can find you and Donna thank you so much for being our guest.

Donna: (44:49)
My pleasure.

Bunny: (44:51)
That’s all we’ve got today. Friends. I wanna thank you for joining the lifesaving gratitude podcast with your host Bunny Terry that’s me and my producer and assistant Johanna Medina. We feel like we’re in the business of sharing the stories that save us and we hope you’ll share as well by letting your friends and family know about the podcast follow and like us wherever you listed. And please take the time to leave a review, whether it’s a stellar comment or a suggestion, we are open to suggestions all the time. Also follow us on Instagram at live saving gratitude pod. You can also follow me personally at Bunny Terry, Santa Fe. You can sign up my website at bunnyterry.com to receive weekly emails about how to become the ultimate gratitude nerd. Thanks so much for checking in.

Bunny: Hi everyone. This is Bunny with the Lifesaving Gratitude podcast. Just in case you don’t know me, I am a stage four colon cancer survivor and the author of Lifesaving Gratitude, which is a book about how gratitude helped me kick cancer’s ass. 

Today we’re going to talk to a special guest about how marketing and marketers can use gratitude to create business and connections with clients and also for themselves to create a really positive way to do their job. But first, I just want to thank you for being here and ask that you download the podcast if you’d like. And certainly subscribe wherever you listen to other podcasts. But enough about me and enough about the podcast. 

I want to introduce you to my special guest, who’s also a friend. Craig Cunningham is currently a realtor with Keller Williams, Santa Fe. And that’s how I met him. However, this is a recent career for him and he was, and correct me if I mispronounce the word, but you were a hotelier. Is that the way to say that?

Craig: Yes. 

Bunny: Yes. He’s spent 30 years in corporate sales and marketing. He’s traveled extensively. I’m going to let him tell you all the places that he’s been to, but he is the founder and principal of Cunningham + Colleagues marketing consultants. He was in the past the VP of marketing and quality for Seaport Hotels and World Centers and the VP of marketing for Core North America. So welcome Craig Cunningham.

Craig: Thanks so much for having me on your podcast.

Bunny: I’m excited. I know you have some great tips for all of our listeners. When I think about these podcasts, I always think about the people that are going to want the information we’re offering. I mean, we’re here to help people and we’re here to figure out how gratitude can make everyone’s life not just easier and simpler, but also fuller. So why don’t you start, Greg? Just tell us a little bit about yourself. Tell us how in the world you ended up in this completely different career? And yet the truth is we’re still just marketers first and realtors, second. Tell me a little bit about yourself. Tell our listeners.

Craig: Yeah. So, as you said, I’ve been in marketing and sales for more than 30 years. I actually started off with an advertising and PR agency and then had the good fortune to be hired by my hotel client at the time, Wyndham hotels. At that time it was a North American chain and it’s now international. 

But from then on, I was in the hotel business. It’s definitely a career where if you are not focused on client service and the whole concept of gratitude, you’re not going to be successful. I always thought of our job as just surprising and delighting our guests and making them feel like they chose the right hotel to be with. And so it was always about waking up every day and saying, “What can I do to make somebody’s day and to give them a great experience?” And, of course, to do this you have to be grateful because they opted to choose your hotel over the million other choices that they had. 

So when I retired from the hotel business two years ago, I was trying to figure out what else I wanted to do with my life. I started doing more volunteering. I volunteer with Kitchen Angels here in Santa Fe to deliver meals to people who are not able to leave their homes. But I also started thinking of whether I wanted to do something else from a professional standpoint and the real estate business seemed like a natural extension, because it’s all about client service. You have to figure out ways to make people feel like they’ve made the right choice in working with you. So it’s all about being grateful every day and figuring out what can I do to help them today. How else can I extend what I’m doing for them in a way that they will appreciate and know that I appreciate them. So that’s what it’s really all about, because of course they could work with a million other other people

Bunny: Right. And let’s talk for just a second. Don’t you think that marketing has changed over the 30 years that you’ve been doing this? I mean, it seems to me that when we were kids, which was back before the crust cooled, we were sort of marketed at. Just talk for a minute about how marketing is different now than it was 10 years ago or 30 years ago.

Craig: It’s funny, because I was going to say the exact same thing. Back in the day, you were running a TV ad or a radio spot or a print ad and it was passive in that you just presented the information, unless you were direct sales. But really with the advent of so much digital media, you are instantly able to forge a relationship with customers through social media, through Facebook, Instagram, where you’re having a dialogue with them from the very beginning. This allows you to work in a much more personal way and to be able to find out much more quickly how you can serve those people. 

So I think it’s changed completely. Before you just sort of put it out there into the ether and hope that something worked, and now you’re able to engage. And I’ve found that so much in real estate where I’m getting emails from folks and then it evolves from the email into a phone call or a zoom call or something like that instantly. I think that’s so much better for both people. Especially for somebody like me who wants to find ways to engage with people and to be of service to them, it makes it a lot easier and more rewarding.

Bunny: I just think about the ways that I connect with my clients. It’s as if you’re somehow conveying to those people that you’re grateful that they showed up.

Craig: Yeah, exactly. I mean, my whole thought is that it’s not a transaction, it’s a relationship. And that relationship can be multifaceted. Once you’ve sold them a house or sold their house, I like to think that we’ve formed a friendship and a bond and that relationship is going to continue. And honestly, I don’t even care if I ever get another piece of business for them. Now think of them as friends. I want to have them to my house for dinner or go have coffee or something like that. 

I think that kind of thing that makes a difference for people in wanting to work with me.  It’s coming from a position of wanting to be of service to them and wanting to make them happy and finding the right solution for them. I’m working with some first-time-buyers right now and I kind of feel like they’re my kids. It’s about, okay, how can I really help them with this? And they’re grateful for the counsel I’m able to give to them, and I’m grateful for the opportunity to work with them. So it’s very rewarding. I think if you approach business relationships in the same way as you would with your friends, it’s a win-win situation for everybody.

Bunny: Well, talking about those first-time home buyers, I mean, that’s one of my favorite deals. You never make the most money from those transactions, but I’m so grateful to be reminded that we are providing the American dream when we’re selling real estate. Yeah. It’s amazing. It’s my favorite experience.

Craig: Yeah. I mean, for somebody to have their first home and to be excited about how they’re going to decorate it and what they’re going to do. And with this young couple, seeing them excited when they see a house brings out all my empathy and makes me want to really go the extra mile for them to make sure they find the right house at the right price for them. And then I just never want to stop. So then it’s like, “Okay, now I’m going to find this person for you to do the plumbing, and I’m going to find this person, etc, and I’ll be with you with you  to help explain things.” I just want to really continue to be of service.

Bunny: I talk a lot, especially on my blog, about Judy Camp, who was one of my first real estate mentors. She was a great friend and Linda Gammons partner for a long time before she passed away. But Judy Camp always says, “If you come from contribution, you can’t help but be successful.”

Craig: Yeah. I mean, just as I was saying, you can’t think of it as a transaction. I think, coming from contribution, how can I help you? How can I make this a better experience? How can I make this work? Because, especially in a real estate transaction, it can be stressful. It’s the biggest financial transaction for the majority of us. So how do you take the burden and the pressure away from them and sort of guide them through the process? I just think the main thing is that it’s much more fun, whether you’re doing volunteer work or in business, to wake up every day and figure out how I could make it fun for somebody else. Because then it’s fun for you and it gets you excited and passionate about what you’re doing.

Bunny: Well, it sounds like our big “why’s” are really similar. I certainly don’t want to put any words in your mouth, but it sounds like your big “why” is just to make the life of the people you come in contact with better.

Craig: Yeah. Of course making money is nice, but there are lots of ways to make money. It’s more about whether you are getting energy from it. And I think you really get energy when you’re working with someone and trying to figure out how you can help them, how you can make their day better, how you can make the service that you’re providing better. And also just doing things that saying, “What about if I do X, Y, Z?” and they’re  like, “Oh, you’ll do that for me?” And I’m like, “Of course.”

I have another set of clients where the transaction was fairly complicated and we were looking at lots of properties. Coming from a corporate background, I love to do spreadsheets and PowerPoint presentations—things like that. And so after about the third thing we had to do, they’re like, “Oh, how are we going to organize all these bids?”  And then one of the guys said to the other guy, “Well, Craig’s going to do a spreadsheet for us. He’s probably already got it done.” So it’s that kind of thing where you’re looking for ways to make their experience better.

Bunny: So this is always a funny question for me to ask, because I have such a loose gratitude practice other than just waking up in the morning and saying, “thank you, thank you, thank you,” and then writing things down, but do you have a practice that you follow that helps you both in your business and your personal life?

Craig: Well, since I came into real estate with Keller Williams, which focuses a lot on being servant leaders and helping people, I’ve gotten into the habit of writing three things I’m grateful for that day. It could be that it’s a beautiful day or a dog or my partner or the opportunity to help somebody or the coffee’s really good that day, but waking up and appreciating what you have in your life is a good way to get in a good mindset for the rest of it.

Bunny: Oh, absolutely. Something I always say is that we kind of rewire our brains. We do. We create new neural pathways every time we say that we’re grateful. So in terms of nuts and bolts, is there a way that you let your clients know? I mean, I find that there are a lot of young people, young entrepreneurs or people who are new to business, who forget how to tell their clients how they’re grateful for them, even if it’s a line in an email. Do you have something that you do specifically over and over?

Craig: I think for me, it’s maybe more in the actions. I think of “This is really going to be helpful if I do this or if I provide this information.” I think it’s always in my voice and the way that I write. I try to always communicate openly and in a friendly and conversational manner. But then I also think “It would be really cool and really helpful if I did X , Y , Z.” I created a whole PowerPoint just on the neighborhoods in Santa Fe, because if you’re out of town it gets confusing. And that came out of a client saying, “Well, I don’t really know the neighborhoods.” And I thought that this would be a great tool for them. So I created it and then I was able to use it with others. 

So I think for me, maybe it’s sort of on the fly. I used to say in the hotel hotel business, “How can I make this a wow experience?” Because the other way to think about it is that every relationship is with people. When you’re in a service business you’re really in the business of creating memories. You can create good memories or you can create bad memory and it’s much more fun to create good memories.

Bunny: And that just comes from a spirit of generosity. I mean, you obviously want this to be the best real estate experience they’ve ever had.

Craig: Right. Right. I’m very grateful for the people that have helped me along the way. I’ve been very fortunate in my career to always work for people who were concerned about my career development and my personal development and became dear friends. And I’ve had a couple of bosses that have hired me twice in two different jobs. So I’m always grateful for the things that other people have done for me. 

So then I want to pay it forward. When I came to Keller Williams and I was introduced to the team here, there was so much openness and willingness to share and help and support. It has been fantastic. What strikes me the most is how grateful I am for what other people have done for me. And how do I pay that back?

Bunny: I mean, this is not a podcast to plug Keller Williams. It’s really more to talk about mindset, but the place where I learned it was sitting in that training room and learning that my mindset was the secret sauce. I mean, that’s the success piece, right?

Craig: Yeah, exactly. It’s not just about production and everything. It’s about weight and having a sense of gratitude and contribution and a sense of abundance. And I don’t mean that in a monetary way. It could be abundance in your health or your friends or all of that kind of stuff. And I think back to you. Your experience with cancer was far worse than mine, but I did have prostate cancer about nine years ago. Everyone I worked with during that entire time when I was going for radiation every day for 10 weeks was so supportive. And then on the last day of radiation, there was this very important meeting, and everyone knew it was my last day.My whole team had a celebration for me on my last day. That was turning something that was obviously a challenging situation into something where I knew they really cared about me and supported me.

Bunny: Wow. I’m interested to hear how your mindset was in the middle of that? 

Craig: I’m just by nature, an optimistic person. So even though it was scary, I felt like I was in good hands from a medical standpoint and I just felt like I was gonna beat it. I had done the education that I needed to and then it was really about having a positive mindset. 

This is probably too much information, but I’ll say it anyway. You’re doing the radiation stripped down to your boxer shorts. And so I jokingly put this Facebook thing about the fact that I needed a new pair of boxer shorts for every day. And people started sending me underwear—different pairs of boxer shorts for every day. So while I was sitting there in the big machine, where you’re sort of in there and it’s buzzing and scanning and all that kind of stuff, it got to be kind of a joke with the techs:  “Oh , what’s he going to be wearing today?”

Bunny: I love that.

Craig: That was a way to keep my spirits up. And also during that process, I really learned how to be very focused. I was in a waiting room with people that were going through, frankly, worse things than prostate cancer. Don’t get me wrong, prostate cancer is pretty serious. It is. People die from it. But I was seeing so many other people that were having a much more challenging time than I was. And we became a family. We all bonded together during that process, because we were all waiting, sometimes for an hour. So it’s things like that. And also things like the kitchen angels service, where it helps reboot you every day for how grateful you should be in your own life and grateful for the opportunity to help other people.

Bunny: Right. There are tons of people who do get what a gift it is. People who don’t even have a specific gratitude practice, but at least an attitude every day that you’re going to figure out something. I just wrote a blog post on limiting beliefs and one of the things that I wanted to convey is that we get to choose every single moment how we view the world. And maybe for somebody out there who’s brand new in business or who’s starting a new business. I just read a statistic that said that the entrepreneur demographics are changing. And now like 48% of new entrepreneurs are over 50. So hooray for the old people! 

But I know that there are people out there right now who are thinking, “Well, I’m not any good at marketing. I’m not any good at that piece of it. I can sell stuff, but I’m not good at the marketing stuff.” I’ve got to tell you, I’m married to a guy who doesn’t believe in self promotion because he came from a generation when you played down your assets, instead of being grateful for them and talking about them. So I’d love to hear what you have to say to somebody who has that limiting belief that they can’t market. And they can’t promote themselves.

Craig: You know, we could all market ourselves, and we do it every day in our interactions.  Whether we think of it as marketing or not, we’re marketing ourselves all day long in how we react and treat other people. The thought I had as you were talking about your husband thinking self-promotion sounds like a dirty word is that it doesn’t have to be you talking  about “me, me, me” and “I did this million dollars in revenue.” This is kind of a turnoff in some ways, because you’re talking about yourself. But if you’re talking about how you can help somebody else and how you can provide a good experience for them with your information and knowledge, you’re not talking about yourself in that context. You’re talking about how you can be of service. I think that’s a much easier way for a lot of people from a generation where we weren’t really supposed to be talking about ourselves.

Bunny: Well, it was pre-social media. Our face wasn’t out there. We just weren’t trained to tell people, “Here’s the reason you should hire me instead of the other person.”

Craig: Yeah, exactly. I mean, now we’re all our own brands on social media. But I think that rather than saying to somebody, “Here’s why you should hire me versus somebody else,” you should just talk about how you can be of service in what you do in an authentic way. Then people are more likely to want to work with you, because you’re radiating a sense of positivity and an interest in them. And they’re not thinking that you just look at them as a transaction and then you’re onto the next person.

Bunny: I frequently use with my marketing coaching clients the example of a dinner party. If you went into a dinner party (and this is for people who are just beginning in whatever business they’re in, especially if they’re self-employed), you wouldn’t simply walk in, take your coat off and say, “Hey, I’m selling something, come and talk to me.” Right? I mean, that’s what you don’t want to do with marketing. You want to start by building a relationship. Can you talk a little bit about that? 

Craig: I think it goes all the way back to Dale Carnegie’s How to Win Friends and Influence People. People do like to talk about themselves. And so the first thing is you should be listening. That was one of the first things I learned in marketing client service. You need to ask questions and learn from your clients. Focus on what they need, as opposed to talking about yourself. You really want to establish a dialogue with them about their wants and needs and hopes and fears and everything else. Then you can talk about how you can address them. But nobody wants to go in and all of a sudden have you sit down and say, “Here’s my PowerPoint about me and what I’ve done.” It should be more of establishing, from the very beginning, a relationship of openness with folks. Then, after hearing from them, you can say “Well, here’s how I think I can you and here are some ideas that I have that I could share with you.” So I think a key thing is really listening from the very beginning.

Bunny: I even found that to be helpful when I used to first go on listing appointments. I was so nervous that I would sit down and I would immediately try to book an appointment. You know, if you’re not in real estate, a listing appointment is just like sitting down with a prospective customer. I would be so nervous in the beginning and really coming from a place of scarcity where I thought, “If I don’t get this listing, I’m not sure I can pay the rent next month.” And if you’re coming from a place of scarcity, you’re likely to self-sabotage. But that’s such good advice because things changed when I finally learned how to sit back and listen: “I’m here to help you. Tell me what it is that you need. Talk to me.” It’s so powerful to give a client time to talk to you. And I think people forget to do that, right?

Craig: Yeah. And I think sometimes we do it because we’re afraid. What I’ve learned so much over the years in business working with people is that people are terrified of silence, so they will immediately start talking. If there’s a second of silence, you jump in and start babbling. Lord knows I do it. But if you just let somebody talk and let it sort of sit there for a second and not just try to be filling in all the time. It drives me crazy when people are doing that. It’s much better if you can have the client talk and then ask some more questions and then be warm and reflective about it. Back to the Dale Carnegie thing, I think one of his first points was if you’re at the dinner party, ask people about themselves. Most people do like to talk about themselves. So ask them and don’t just start talking about yourself. 

Bunny: I think that even people who would say, “I don’t like to talk about myself,” really do want somebody to ask them and listen to them.

Craig: Yeah. And it’s not just asking them to go on and on. It’s more meaningful questions about, for example, why they decided to move here. Just those kinds of questions that get them thinking. Growing up in materialistic Dallas, the joke was that the questions at a party were like, “Where do you live? What do you do? What do you drive?” And so it’s not questions like that. It’s asking them more about their life experience,

Bunny: You just brought me to another completely different point, which is for any realtors out there listening: I think it’s really important to convey to your clients how grateful you are for where you live. I mean, if our lifestyle is such a selling point, don’t you think you should share that?

Craig: Oh, yeah, exactly. I mean, living in Santa Fe there’s so much beauty. I’m looking out my window right now at the beautiful blue sky. When I leave my house in the morning and I see the mountains, and then when I’m coming home at night and the sun is setting over the mountains and I see all the different colors and everything, it’s just breathtaking. It’s great to live in such a great and wonderful environment and in a place that is very spiritual, going back with the native Americans—respect for the earth and nature and all of those things—I think it does help center us more than a lot of other places.

Bunny: How do you convey that to your clients? I know you’re doing something really cool online that’s different from some other realtors.

Craig: Well, I’m not just posting on my Facebook page,” Hey, I just sold this house or just sold that house.” Well, that’s great. But I’m more talking about new experiences in Santa Fe: new restaurants, or a new place to go hiking, or something exciting that’s happening at one of the museums or things like that—enthusiastically talking about the experience of living in Santa Fe. And if down the road, by the way, you’re looking at this stuff and you decide you want to buy a house here, I would love to help you. But it’s more about conveying the reason why we all want to live here

Bunny: And tell us about your blog, because I think it’s amazing.

Craig: So I created this blog, which is called Santa Fe Scenes. It’s that same kind of thing where it’s just talking about having fun in Santa Fe. One of the things was, you know, we’ve got the old Santa Fe trail and we’ve got the old Pincus trail, but did you know that we had a Margarita trail and a Chocolate trail? Stuff like that. Just being whimsical about it and talking about some of the things are unique about the city and sharing my own passion for Santa Fe. I was very fortunate to be able to do a lot of international travel for my job. I was grateful for the opportunity that I was given to see places that I wouldn’t have seen otherwise from Bogota to Sao Paulo and Rio de Janeiro and Beijing and places like that. So I’ve always been enthusiastic about travel and now living in such a beautiful place like Santa Fe, I want to share that enthusiasm with people.

Bunny: And you’re getting some good feedback on that I bet, right?

Craig: Yes, I am. I’m getting good feedback on it. It’s been a wonderful thing to reconnect with friends who are saying, “Good for you, you old dog! You’re back out there trying something new.” Because whenever someone says, “Oh, you’re a new realtor,” I say, “Well, I’m an old new realtor. I’m 61 and I’m starting this for the first time.” But it’s been great from that perspective and the support that you get from your friends. Then people are saying, “Oh, well, I know somebody who might be interested in sending you that information.” I think that’s one of the positive things that social media has done where we’ve been able to reconnect with so many people that we might have completely lost touch with.

Bunny: Oh yeah. I did a post not very long ago about how grateful I was, and it was in the middle of all the fear over Facebook and Twitter. And I just said that it’s such a great platform for reconnecting with cousins that I haven’t seen since I was six. I mean, I just turned 60. I’m an old dog and this is a new trick for me, but I think that if you use it the right way, it’s a real gift. I also think there are so many realtors, like you said, who just post either pictures of houses that they have listed or their accomplishments. And I think they’re really missing an opportunity.

Craig: Yeah. Because then you’re just talking at someone. You’re not sharing information and excitement about things with them. People don’t want to look at that stuff. They want to look at things like the fact that there are like six great chocolate tiers in Santa Fe. And then the next time I’m in town, I want to go to each one of them. Or discovering an amazing new hiking trail or a beautiful image of a shop window or a piece of art or something like that. 

Bunny: Yeah, it’s so much better than “I just listed this house at 123 main street. Don’t you wish you owned it?” Exactly.

Craig: Exactly. I think more people would react to it. I’d really like to have some of that green chili chocolate over at The Chocolate Smith or whatever. It’s much more interesting than a picture of a kitchen that has granite countertops. Oh my goodness.

Bunny: And, you know, Craig, I found that people will call me and they’ll say, “Well, I’ve been following you on Facebook for two years. And I feel like you’re my best friend. I think you’d be the right person to show me around and help me find a house.” And I bet that’s happening to you too.

Craig: Yeah, exactly. It’s funny, you mentioned that. One of the people I’ve been mentoring told me a story about how she posted a lovely picture of herself and then somebody called her and said, “I feel like I already know you because you just look like a nice person and I feel like I can trust you.” I think also that it’s our eyes and our smile and everything that conveys so much of what you’re talking about. If you have a spirit of gratitude and service and a sense of abundance, not scarcity, it shows in your face, your eyes, your smile, and your whole persona.

Bunny: Well, we’re going to have to wrap up here in a minute, but I would love to hear if you have just three great tips that you would give to somebody who feels kind of stuck in their marketing. It could be what you’ve learned in 30 years or in the last three days, whatever it is.

Craig: I think one is changing your question from “How do I market myself?” to “What can I do for this client?” or “What can I do that’s going to excite the people? How can I make them feel appreciated and valued?” And this can work in cases where you’re actually working one-on-one with a client or cases where you’re trying to figure out how to promote what you’re doing. How do I find ways to surprise and delight people? So I like to do that with social media buys, where you come up with quirky, little things to talk about that are authentically Santa Fe or a funny picture of my dog or something like that. You want to put a smile on people’s faces. And social media gives us so many opportunities to be able to do that in ways that we couldn’t before. So the main thing at the end of it is to put your client first, and then I think everything else will come from there.

Bunny: You’re absolutely right. I think as long as your passion is helping people, then success is just a natural by-product of that.

Craig: Exactly. People feel that energy and then they want to tell their friends about you.

Bunny: What I’ve found is that people want to be able to trust somebody, especially in this business where they’re making possibly the biggest purchase of their life.

Craig: Right? I’m thinking back to these younger clients. We were touring houses, and they were interested in one particular house and I was like, “No, I’m not going to let you buy this. This is not the right move.” And I think all of a sudden they’re like, “Wow, he really cares. He’s not just thinking ‘Tick tock, tick tock. We’ve seen three houses.’” This is not House Hunters International where there are the three properties and you have to buy one. So again, it’s not a transaction. It’s a journey. It’s a relationship.

Bunny: I think that’s the most important tip for somebody to take away. Whether you’re selling widgets or earrings or house cars or houses, this is not a transaction. It’s a relationship. We want people to trust you and come back over and over. I don’t know how you can love your job if you’re not doing it the way we’re doing it.

Craig: Yeah, exactly. And have fun with it. We get to meet interesting people all day long. We get to see things. We get to use our own creativity to express ourselves. I know there are people that are in jobs that don’t have that. But I also read things about  the janitor in an elementary school who takes real pride in what they do, and they are going to do the best job that they possibly can. So I think in almost everything, you can come at it with a mindset of “How can I make this a great experience for me and for others?”

Bunny: That’s great stuff. Tell us where people can find you and where they can find your blog.

Craig: Well, probably the most fun thing I’m doing is the Santa Fe Scenes blog. 

Bunny: Okay. And we’ll share that on the information page for the podcast. And then, of course, if people want to buy a house from you, they can find you through there?

Craig: Yeah. All my information is on there. So one stop shop.

Bunny: Craig, I’m so excited that you were here. This was fun. I think we could do it again.

Craig: Yeah. Yeah.

Bunny: Because I think this is the place where people get stuck. People who are self-employed get stuck in this part. And so I think there’s a lot of stuff that we can talk about.  But I’m of course really grateful that you agreed to talk with us.

Craig: Oh, thanks. It’s been a lot of fun. I appreciate it. 

Bunny: And to everybody else, thanks for being here. This is once again, the Lifesaving Gratitude podcast. I’m Bunny Terry. You are welcome to go to my website if you’d like to learn more about me and about buying my book, which is all about gratitude and how gratitude helped me kick stage four cancer’s ass. And we’d love to have you follow us and subscribe on spot Spotify, Apple, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Thanks so much, Craig.

Craig: Thank you. Next time.