52. The Art of Following Your Dreams: Mary Mirabal

Bunny: (00:11)
Hi there. Welcome to the life saving gratitude podcast. This is Bunny Terry, and I’m joined by my co-host and my producer, Johanna Medina. And today we have special guest. Mary Mirabal is a woman who came into my life unexpectedly and I’m so grateful for her presence. And today she talks with us about her journey from corporate America, where she was, um, living, what some people might think was the dream. I mean, I think that when she started her professional life, she sort of thought this was where she wanted to end up. And yet she shifted gears, um, and became an artist. She became a painter. I mean, Johanna, you weren’t present when we recorded, but she got to listen to it. So what do you think about, well, the story Mary had to tell?

Johanna: (01:05)
I was really sad not to be on this recording with her because I actually have a piece of Mary’s art and I like, I treasure it. I got at the sweetheart auction and I think it’s so beautiful and I wish I could have met her. I mean, I’m sure someday I will, but her story is really inspiring. And, like you said, in the episode, similar to some other people’s story stories we’ve heard, um, you know, and it just reminds me even this weekend, I had a conversation with somebody who’s thinking about changing their career, you know, but it would require going back to school and more training and they’re just, oh, too old, or I’m not gonna succeed. And I just told them, no, like, if that’s what you wanna do, then you should go for it. Like, there’s never, you’re never too old to do what you wanna do and follow your passion. So, I’m definitely gonna share this episode with that person.

Bunny: (02:00)
oh, I think it’s so inspiring. And, and, and I gotta tell you when we started this, I thought that Mary was gonna say, oh, as a little kid, I drew all the time. I painted all the time. I already had this idea in my head and she said, I love that story of her asking Santa for a paint set when she was 55 years old. I thought what I mean it’s, I mean, and she really lived in possibility. I mean, she, and she’s really good at her craft, but I, but she does treat it like a craft. I mean, she studied, she took classes. She said, I wanna give this a shot. And so she, um, and she and I met at a really interesting way. You’ll see, you’ll hear that on the podcast, but, if you’re on the fence about where you are professionally, I think you’re gonna find this podcast really inspiring.

Bunny: (02:59)
And even, even if you’re not on the fence professionally, but you’re thinking, you know, I don’t that’s, I don’t, if you’re thinking about a hobby and you’re thinking, but I, you know, I’m too older, I’m not good at that. I’m not proficient. I, Mary is going to, I mean, she’s your inspiration. And the other thing that I would, I’d like to, to let everybody know is that in the next couple of weeks, we have guests that, that are re I mean, they’re diverse. Um, we have a friend of yours, Johanna, who was diagnosed with a chronic illness and has, um, really found a way to thrive. Um, we have somebody who’s written a New York times best seller, all about, being creative. I’m really excited about that. So I just want folks to stay tuned and be sure that you are, um, subscribing rating, um, reviewing all that stuff. What is all that stuff, Johanna?

Johanna: (04:02)
You got it, you hit it all. I think and share, share with your friends. If you’re a listener and you love it, we’d love for you to share it because we just kind of wanna reach more people. It’s it was my goal this year to have like a hundred downloads on one episode and we’re, we haven’t hit that yet. We’re kind of cool, but I’d love to hit that a hundred downloads.

Bunny: (04:24)
we’re we are very close. And the other thing I would tell people is that we have a podcast, uh, sorry, a Facebook group. That’s very active of people sharing and studying and, and being avid devotees of gratitude. And I recently changed the name to gratitude nerds, because that’s what we are. We’re sort of obsessed with studying something that, um, I, I sure didn’t plan to study in my sixties, but here I am. So thanks for showing up. And we hope you enjoy this podcast with Mary Mirabal. Hi friends. I am here with my very special friends, Mary Mirabal, Mary and I met, um, as so many of us have met in the last decade through social media. She followed my Santa Fe, my Bunny Terry Keller Williams, Santa Fe, through social media page one day was in Santa Fe and just dropped by. But Mary, you don’t live in Santa Fe, do you?

Mary : (05:29)
No, I live in Tampa, Florida, the, sunshine state, but, we travel to, you know, New Mexico all the time and I stalk to after following love it. I just, just, I had to meet you in person, you know?

Bunny: (05:50)
Well, that, that was a cool, that was so cool because we were, you know, I was just sitting in my office and you came and, and put your head in the door as I recall it and introduced yourself. And I was like, I know Mary, even though we had never met in person. And so we became acquainted and I got really fascinated with your story, because the way that I knew you, um, was that you were an artist, you’re a painter and you’re a very calm, but then I think it might have been your second visit where we went and sat and had coffee. You started telling me your story. And I was more and more fascinated because, um, as, as our listeners are gonna learn in the next half hours, so you didn’t start out proof professionally in the art world, you started out in the corporate world. So I’m really curious. And I’m rather than me trying to explain it. I just like for you to tell folks your story to start with,

Mary : (06:49)
Oh, I would be delighted to, because I’m, I still think back, you know, and pinch myself, you know, am I really doing this? But it it’s true. I mean, all my pretty much my adult life, uh, up until my mid fifties, I was, I had another life in the corporate world. Mostly in the insurance industry, for the majority of that time, and, you know, raised a fan my husband and our two children. And, you know, now our four grandchildren, and you know, did very well. But when I hit the age of 50, uh, I was downsized from a company that I was working with. And it just sent me into such a hail spin. And at the time, you know you can’t see the big picture, uh, and people close to me said, well, you know, maybe this is just, you know, a time when change is good, that what you’ve been doing for decades maybe now is your time to figure out what it is that you really want to do with the rest of your life.

Mary : (08:06)
So I was, you know, I thought about it and I thought about it and, you know, we started, uh, our grandchildren started coming along and at that point I was only working part-time for other people, which, uh, was great because it allowed me time to spend with my grandchildren. And then when I hit the age of 55, I’m now 63. Uh, I finally decided that, well, silently, I decided that I wanted to dip my toe into the world of a painter, uh, have always loved and enjoyed art, um, from when I was very young, even though, I didn’t really do a lot of art, uh, growing up. I’m one of eight children from a, you know, very middle class family. So there, there wasn’t a lot of extra money for extracurricular activities, you know, such as art and so forth. We were highly encouraged to play sports and learn to play a musical instrument.

Mary : (09:18)
I wasn’t good at either of those things , as it turns out , uh, so I, I, I somehow found my calling, uh, and maybe it was just, it was just there all along buried, buried down deep until it was somehow released when the timing was right, as my mother would say, she still doesn’t understand where it came from. But, uh, I decided, uh, one day I was going to ask Santa for a paint set and, uh, lo and behold, he brought me one and it, it still scared me terribly, and I didn’t even open it for six months. And then when I did.

Bunny: (10:10)
When You were 55?

Mary : (10:11)
When I was 55. Yes.

Bunny: (10:13)
You asked Santa for a paint set?

Mary : (10:15)
I asked and Santa looked at me very strangely and like, what are you gonna do with that? Because I had never done anything like that, other than Payton by numbers, you know, when you were a child, you know, and you can’t hardly mess those up . So once I actually opened the kid and I started experimenting with the canvases and the paints, I thought, wow, this is really fun. They, they weren’t very good, but that was all right. I was having fun. I decided to take some lessons at our local community college, on Saturday mornings, I would go and my, paints and canvases down, every weekend for three hours. And I did that for a couple sessions, and I learned so much from the instructor and the other students there that I was hooked. And, so I started off painting, you know, mostly floral things because I’m a gardener as well.

Mary : (11:24)
And then they just, um, after a few years of that, they started to develop into abstract works. And that’s where I am now painting abstracts and, abstracted landscapes, based on my visits to New Mexico. Uh, I live in Florida most of the year, but I do spend several months, each summer out in Santa Fe. We rent a lovely little CED right off of canyon road. We go back to the same place every year. I paint right there at the Casita, and it’s the most fabulous thing in the world. I lead my husband and my family here.

Bunny: (12:08)

Mary : (12:09)
And it’s, it’s my, it’s just my happy place.

Bunny: (12:15)
Well, well, there, there are so many, there’s so many things in there that I wanna talk about, but I’m so fascinated by that ask I’m. So, first of all, I’m fascinated by the idea of asking Santa for something, um, you weren’t sure, I mean, you, you weren’t sure you wanted it, but evidently did, and then you got it and you held onto it for six months. Was there some, it feels to me like maybe it was a little scary to actually own the thing.

Mary : (12:50)
It was very scary because then that made it, you know, because prior to that, it was always just something that it was like a little secret that I kept inside of me. I didn’t tell anyone. I didn’t tell my husband. I didn’t tell my parents. I didn’t, I didn’t tell my friends. It was just like, I just kept it inside. And then once I finally said it and got it out into the universe, then it was real. And when I actually started opening the paint tubes and applying the paint to the canvases, that was real. So, yeah, it was really crazy and it was really scary, but it’s like, you know, this point at that, well, I used to say at that point in my life, I’m like, well, what is the worst thing that could happen? You know, that it I’d be terrible at it. Oh, well then at least I tried and I, and I did something out of my comfort zone and that’s something I didn’t usually do for a long time. And I, of course, you know, once you hit 50, everything changes, you know,

Bunny: (14:04)
Well, and, you know, I think 50 to me, an old friend of mine said, that’s when you stop carrying what everybody else thinks, I thought, I, right. I think it’s, it’s particularly freeing, but I, you know, I kind of get that because I always wrote every day of my life, you know, I wrote stories and yet I didn’t ever say to anybody, I am a writer. And I started writing my blog when I was 49. And I still didn’t say, I, I am a writer because that, you know, there’s some level of, ego that you have to put out there. First of all, to say that you’re something specific, I am a painter, but then you also run the risk of your ego getting crushed if you’re really tied to what everybody else thinks. So it sounds to me, like you said, Hey, I’m just gonna do this thing. That feels good to my soul.

Mary : (15:05)
Exactly, exactly. And as I said, the worst, that would be that, you know, I wasn’t any good at it, but it turned out that, you know, I had a little talent

Bunny: (15:18)
You really are. You really are very good at it. And, I wanna tell folks that not only do you come to Santa Fe and paint, but you also are in a number of galleries, um, you’ve done several shows. You’ve won awards. Talk about that because I want, what I really want people to hear is that you followed your dream and lo and behold, the world accepted it.

Mary : (15:44)
Oh, oh, it is crazy. Because I just, at that point, it was like, I had, once I realized that I could do it, then I, then it was like, okay, what, where am I gonna go from here? How, how do I get to the next level? What are, what are the steps? And, and I knew that, so I reached out to people and found out I have a, a wonderful mentor in Santa Fe, who owns a gallery there, Acosta Strong.

Bunny: (16:20)
Let’s mention. Yeah, let’s mention him. Let’s talk. Let’s give him the name of the gallery.

Mary : (16:24)
Carlos Acosta from Acosta strong, fine art.

Bunny: (16:28)
And how did you meet him?

Mary : (16:30)
We met him, the most funny situation. He owns the Casita that we rent. So the very first time we came out, we met him just as the person who owned the house, had no idea that he owned an art gallery and, you know, so it just blew my mind. And so obviously he loves art. We, I started talk telling that I did art. So I showed him some of my pieces and he just, from then on just, you know, graciously mentored me and has helped me tremendously.

Bunny: (17:17)
Well, don’t you think, I mean, you had to… you were talking about being in galleries and you said you just started reaching out to people. I mean, there’s a moment. When you have to decide to let the world take a look at what you’ve created. Right.

Mary : (17:31)
You do, you do. And, and it’s, and it’s so scary, so scary and you get rejected it so often. Uh you should see my rejection file. But you know, you just .

Bunny: (17:46)
Well, that’s a, that’s a big lesson. Yes. I mean, you do get rejected.

Mary : (17:50)
You do. You do. And I tell everyone, I have been rejected by the best galleries on canyon road. honest to God, but I have made some of the most wonderful friends with the gallery owners there. So you just, you can’t let that stop. You just can’t. And, and I know in my heart that, that my work resonates in New Mexico, and I have a lot of collectors there and it, but I am, I’m currently in, hat ranch gallery in Santa Fe. And Sarah is the owner of that gallery. And she is the most lovely woman. She approached me a few years ago. cuz she was following me on Instagram and we had not met and I came to town one summer and she just out of the blue contacted me and she says, would you like to grab a drink? And I’m like, sure. You know and we did. She says, I love your art. I wanna carry it. You know, would you consider it? Bam, next thing we knew, we were driving to Hat, Ranch gallery, my husband and I and bringing artwork. And she took every single piece that I brought. And so it has been wonderful.

Bunny: (19:08)
So you not only figured out a way to create art, but you also, you’re also making a little bit of money doing it.

Mary : (19:16)
Oh yes, yes, yes, yes. I mean,

Bunny: (19:19)
You’ve been financially successful at following this stream, right?

Mary : (19:23)
Oh yes. Oh yes. Uh, cuz as much as I enjoy painting, I love seeing the pieces go to homes so that people will enjoy them. And then, you know, I you know, stay in touch with my collectors and they, they send me pictures of where their pieces are hanging and how much it means to them. And it just, it’s so wonderful. It’s just, so it’s hard to describe the feeling you get, when someone connects to your artwork so much so that they want to have it hanging in their home.

Bunny: (20:01)
I’m curious. So that was eight years ago. I mean, that’s, that’s quick. I mean, that’s a relatively quick transition from a dabbler to somebody that people collect. I mean, do you ever look back, do you ever think back to the moment that you asked for that pay set and I mean, were you on the verge of considering going back to work? Were you, did you ever consider going back to the corporate world because there’s some security in there?

Mary : (20:28)
There was, there was. But, at that time in my mid fifties, uh, people weren’t looking to hire someone with my skillset and level, you know, of pay that was required. You know, so I, that’s why I was work. I was working, part-time just doing consulting work, which I thoroughly enjoyed because I could set my own hours, you know, set my own pay rate. And I was perfectly happy doing that. But then the company that I was, uh, consulting for working part-time asked me to come on full-time with them because they were growing and that’s when grandchild number two was coming along. And I had to decline because I had, you know, promised our daughter that I would help out, uh, with the grandchild, which I never regretted doing that. So that’s when I left the corporate world altogether,

Bunny: (21:34)
You know, we did a podcast, um, a couple of weeks ago with a gentleman who was, uh, you know, sort high ranking, with Apple. And he said he had gotten a divorce and was going to be, um, you know, be a, a dad, um, a single dad. And he said he had to make a decision. Um, even though he, you know, he was, he was just fine doing the work that he was doing, but he said I had to make a decision and, and he made a complete change in his. And so it wasn’t like I hated being in a corporate space, but my life at the moment determined that I had to, to follow a different dream and a different path. So it’s right. Yeah.

Mary : (22:22)
I totally understand that because at that point, you know, I, I was not willing to sacrifice time with my family, like I had done, you know, in the previous decades, uh, because I traveled a lot, uh, when I was working. So I was away from my kids, you know, for, you know, sometimes, you know, a week at a time. And, and I just, I, yeah. And so that was, that was hard. Um, but I realized that when my grandkids were, you know, were here, it’s like, I didn’t wanna miss that opportunity because they’re only young as, you know, for so long. And if I could, you know, grab every opportunity I could, you know, to, to be a help, you know, for my daughter and spend time that precious, you know, first year or two with my grand in kids. Oh my gosh. You know? Right. That that’s a gift. You, you can’t get that again.

Bunny: (23:16)
No, no. And I guess I, you know, I keep thinking about people who, you know, you, you, you it’s okay working for somebody else and it’s not, um, it’s not onerous. I, and yet there’s something it’s like, there’s something back here in the speaking, in the back of your brain saying, mm-hmm, , um, I think I can do this differently. I think, I mean, that takes a lot of courage.

Mary : (23:43)
Yeah. I’m not sure where that came from, but

Bunny: (23:46)
,

Mary : (23:48)
I just think as we get older, we just decide that, you know, uh, we’re just gonna do things our way now and

Bunny: (23:56)
Well, and don’t you think that we decide that time is more important than achievement in terms of, of what the world thinks is achievement.

Mary : (24:07)
Absolutely. Absolutely. You know, because you spend so much time, you know, chasing what you think is the dream when you’re younger and then you real, you know, you get to my age and you realize that’s really not what fulfills you, you know? And, and although those things, you know, aren’t important. Uh, so yeah, it’s, it’s kind of sad that we have to get to, you know, this stage in our life to, to really appreciate and know what we have. And so I, I want to honor, you know, where I am now in my life and, you know, look forward to what’s coming, you know,

Bunny: (24:48)
Tell me about your family. Tell me how they’ve, I mean, did they first sort of like throw their hands up and say mom’s lost her mind? Or, did Dino say, I think Mary’s lost her mind, but we’re gonna put up with this for a couple months.

Mary : (25:09)
He probably, I think, yeah, I think he still thinks that , but he’s actually, he has seen my success and he is so happy for me. He knows that this is what makes me happy. Uh, because we we’ve had many discussions. Um, I wasn’t born in Florida. So although I’ve lived here over 40 years, uh, Dino was born and raised here. So, um, I very much would like to move out to where you are, you know, that , that’s how, it’s kind of how we met . But he has, he just can’t leave Florida, you know, on a permanent basis. He absolutely loves it out there. Uh, he can’t wait to join me when I come out. But he he’s a Florida boy and he doesn’t like the cold. So, you know, after many, many discussions, um, we won’t be getting a second residence. in New Mexico. I’ll just continue to come out, uh, Enjoy my time. But the very first time that I told him that I wanted, I think that was four years ago when the first time I told him I wanted to come by myself and spend a month there and he was just, I don’t think he even knew had the words . Wow.

Bunny: (26:37)
So you, you were really young when you got married. So this has been,

Mary : (26:41)
We’ve been this year, we’ll be married 43 years. Yes, we were 20. Yeah. We were 20, 20 years old when we got married and,

Bunny: (26:51)
And so life has gone along in this marriage, it looked a certain way and then you said I’m gonna go away for a month.

Mary : (26:59)
Yeah. Then all of a sudden I just . I just, you know, throw everything up and disrupt, you know, his, our beautiful little, you know, life and, and make that announcement. And as you know, after we sat down and talked about it, because it’s not like we’d never been there. We’d been there obviously many, many, many times together. And I just, you know, he, I just explained to him as, as calmly as I could that, you know, I, I love you. I love our family. I said, but I love Santa Fe and I love New Mexico and I, I can’t be in Florida 12 months a year. it just, it it’s, I couldn’t. I said, so if you want a happy wife, you know, we’re going to need to have a compromise and, and bless his heart. He is the most wonderful understanding man in the world.

Mary : (28:05)
And my mother never let me forget what a wonderful husband he is. So the first time that I came out was for 30 days, had the best time painting, you know, networking, you know, and I came home after 30 days and it went by so fast and I told him, I said, okay, next year it’s gonna be 60 days. And he’s like, yeah, yeah. Soon as I got home, I said, next year, it’s 60 days. And he’s like, oh, okay. If we can afford it, I’m like, okay. So we just worked our butts off. And the next year I came out for 60 days.

Bunny: (28:46)
And you sold a lot of artwork to support that.

Mary : (28:50)
Oh yeah. Oh, absolutely. And when I’m out there, I’m painting and I’m meeting with galleries, you know, and I’m, you know, traveling and always looking for, you know, another opportunity. So I’m actually working, you know, while I’m living my dream and of course then after being out there 60 days, uh, that wasn’t enough so then now we’re up to 90 days, I’m up I’m so I’m up to three months where I come out and he, he understands it he’ll come out in usually about a month after, or I’m there and he’ll come out for a couple weeks. Uh, and we had the best time and then he’ll come back home because he’s still working full time. And then in July, um, which is the month of our anniversary, he’ll come out again and spend our anniversary, uh, and then come home. And then usually a couple weeks later I’ll come home. So it it’s just, it, it works for us.

Bunny: (29:54)
And what about your kids? I mean, are they like mom, mom, what do you, you’re going away months and month?

Mary : (30:01)
They, I know they’re, they don’t sometimes they still don’t understand. And my kids are grown, you know, my… they’re grown, they have their own kids. But they just, I, but I think they really think it’s cool that mom is doing something for her, something that she needs to do.

Bunny: (30:24)
Listen, I think it’s an important lesson for them to learn. I mean, I, you know, I am not the grandmother who is available every day of the week to watch my grandson and, you know, Johanna’s producing this, that she knows all of this. Right. But I think it’s, you know, I love my kids. I love my grandkids, but we, our lives are not interdependent. It’s it’s, um, I mean, you make time for them because you’re choosing to not because it’s the expectation within your family, that you’re the matriarch and you provide all the support. I think it’s a really important lesson that you have dreams that are important to fulfill.

Mary : (31:08)
Right. And you’re never too old to have to have a new dream.

Bunny: (31:12)
No, in fact, I, you know, you know, I love that piece that’s gone around in the last six months or so that says, you know, that really 60 to 70 is the year that’s the decade when, um, the majority of people have made incredible accomplishments. And then 70 to 80 is the next one. I mean, I don’t, you know, I know there’s a lot of 35 year olds who might argue with that, but I, I gotta tell you, you are living proof that life just gets better as you start to mature and embrace your life a little more fully. I hope I said that as eloquently as possible, but I think you’re a really good example of, um, you don’t settle into your life. You continue to live it better and better.

Mary : (32:03)
To create, yes.

Bunny: (32:04)
To create it. That’s, that’s a great way. Absolutely.

Mary : (32:05)
Yes. You know, I say, I adore my grandkids, but I’m not one of those either. Um, where much to my sons dismay. He, he would like us to be able to babysit for them every weekend and you know, other things, but it’s like, uh, Gigi and I have plans, you know, we , we still have a life , but no, we, we do, uh, as much as we can, you know, try and be there for them. But no, it’s like, I’m not ready to settle down and, you know, sit in the rocking chair and, you know, it’s just, there’s still too much more I wanna do. And I wanna explore and I wanna try.

Bunny: (32:46)
Oh, I love that. I wanna explore. And I wanna try. So I’m curious what you would say, because you’ve gone through this. You’ve, you’ve gone through this and you’ve been very successful, but not without a lot of challenges, but what I mean, oh. You know, if we, if we have a listener who’s living a life that feels sort of like a half-life, what, what do you tell people now, when they say how in the world did you do that? And, and I want people to, I want people to be clear that they isn’t a situation where you were supported, you know, you weren’t, you know, you didn’t have a sugar daddy out there who said, yeah, just quit working. I mean, you had to make this work. I mean, you couldn’t just quit doing what you were doing and, and just dabble. I mean, you, you needed for this to be successful, right?

Mary : (33:41)
Oh, yes. Yes. And, I did, it was like, you know, we sat down and we, we decided, um, that the money that I was bringing in just, you know, working consulting, you know, we, we could, you know, do without, you know, we, we could still make it if I was not doing that. So you just, I just, you have to make the commitment, uh, to, to try, you have to, you can’t have do it, you know, you’re either in it fully, or it, I don’t think it’s gonna work. And my husband understood that, uh, and he was willing, you know, to help make the sacrifices too, to make that happen. You know, sure. We, we, we didn’t know what was going to happen. We never imagined that, you know, I would be able to spend part of the year in Santa Fe, like I do just with, you know, him working and, and be painting and selling, you know, never in our imagination, we would thought that that was possible. So I would say to someone who is in that situation, you have to believe in yourself, you have to put it out there. You have to say it. You can’t just think it, like I did all those years. You have to actually say it. You have to say it to people to make it real.

Bunny: (35:11)
That’s so funny because I just, as you know, I mean, one of the reasons that we’re recording this now instead of an hour and a half ago is that I just had a meeting with my writing coach and she would, you know, I tend to sometimes use language that is, um, you know, well, I didn’t take the time. You know, I didn’t, I only wrote two days this week. I, you know, I didn’t do this, I didn’t do that. And she said, wait, wait, wait, what you have to say is I did. And here’s what I did accomplish. Here’s what I do believe this is, this is what I do know about myself. And I, and I know it sounds elementary to somebody who’s really self actualized, but you do have to say it, Mary, don’t you think you have to write it down. You have to say, you have to know it in your heart about yourself.

Mary : (36:00)
You oh, absolutely. Absolutely. And just before, you know, we started this, I did the same thing. I went through my affirmations, uh, because it’s been a long time since I’ve, you know, done something like this. And, so yeah, you have to remind yourself, it’s not what you didn’t accomplish this week. Cuz I am so guilty of that, you know? And then I stop. It’s like, okay, no, no, no, no list, you know, write down everything you actually did that day. So your to-do list doesn’t have to be a, to do. It’s like my accomplishments a were and focus on that now. And I’m like I say, I’m guilty just like everybody else. But once you do that, it just turns it around and you’re like, wow. Now, now I’m energized to, you know, for the next day to get it done well.

Bunny: (36:53)
And if you, yourself talk is I am a painter. I am an artist. I am a creator. Like I said, for years, I didn’t say I am a writer. I in fact it still is kind of difficult for me to say that out in the world because I’m like, well, I just have this one little book. I’m like, are you kidding? I’m a writer and yeah.

Mary : (37:14)
How many of us have a book?

Bunny: (37:18)
Right. And it’s, you are, I do think that it’s hard for women, especially in our generation to say I accomplished this thing and I’m still accomplishing it. I it’s hard to give ourselves credit.

Mary : (37:34)
Yes. It’s, it’s very hard. It’s very hard. And that’s something that I learned, you know, in the last decade, that, you know, we are so much more, than what we were when we were younger, you know?

Bunny: (37:52)
Well, and I would dare to say, we’re so much more than what we believe we are.

Mary : (37:55)
Oh, you are so right. You are so right, because we’re only limited by what our beliefs are about ourself. So if you can tell yourself that, you know, you are a writer, you are an artist, you are a singer, whatever it is that you want to do, you know, you can do it.

Bunny: (38:19)
I really wanna give you, you a shout out here. Just be, because it’s so important to me to express my gratitude. But you have donated something to the cancer foundation for New Mexico, sweetheart auction. Is this the fifth year that you’ve done that

Mary : (38:35)
I think, or it might be. Yeah.

Bunny: (38:39)
I mean, you’re not only creative, but you’re really generous. So I just want to thank you for doing that. It’s

Mary : (38:46)
So important. Oh, thank you. I really appreciate your mentioning that. Although you didn’t have to, because I would do it for you in a heartbeat, you know? But it’s just a way to give back, you know, I’ve been blessed in so many ways that if you know, any little thing I can do, I’m so honored to be asked and to be able to help.

Bunny: (39:11)
So tell me, this is, we always ask this, you alluded to the fact that this has been kind of tough recently. Can you tell me what you’re grateful for today or this week or.

Mary : (39:26)
Oh, this week I am grateful that I actually was able to get into my studio and do some painting, cuz I haven’t been able to that for a little while for health reasons. But it felt so good to actually get in there and get my hands dirty and put the paint to the canvas. And it just opened me up in ways that I’ve been sing for many months. And so for that, I am so grateful.

Bunny: (40:02)
I’m really curious to know what, tell me what that feels like that moment. When you sit down at your canvas and you start, you know, putting paint and on a brush, what, what happens in your heart and your head?

Mary : (40:16)
Oh my gosh, you just lose sense of time. You just feel like you are transported to what wherever makes you happy. And you just, if, if you get out of your head while you’re doing it, you are just dancing or singing and just completely unaware of what else is going on around you. And it doesn’t always mean that what you’re doing is going to be anything that you’re willing to show anybody, but it’s just the feeling that you get from doing it. That’s that’s the reason that you do it Because it could be that it’s…

Bunny: (41:00)
Yeah, go ahead. I’m sorry.

Mary : (41:03)
It could just, oh, that’s okay. Because it could be that, you know, it it’s something that, oh, you’re just gonna put in the, you know, the trash can, but then it might be something that flowed so easily. You, you never knew that was there. And sometimes, um, I paint intuitively, so I never know what is going to come out until I actually start playing. And I look at it as play. Um, I don’t look at it as work or something I have to do, um, because it’s not. And if I’m not in that playful mood, I’m not able to, to, to paint. And so I was able to do that this week and Ugh, it just it’s so wonderful, but it just, it’s very hard to describe, um, when you start painting and you don’t have any, uh, plan in place, it’s just, you just let it, whatever your heart earn your soul tells you to do. It’s I just grab colors instinctively. I don’t plan it out ahead of time. I just start with a color and then I go with another color and it’s just, whatever happens, happens. And it’s the most magical feeling.

Bunny: (42:27)
Well, Mary, I have to say that, that, that actually conveys on the canvas because what you paint is really joyful.

Mary : (42:36)
Oh,

Bunny: (42:37)
It’s really, I mean that is, that’s the emotion that I get. Not only does it feel like the artist was in this state of joy, it also makes the viewer feel the same thing. So I think that’s a huge gift.

Mary : (42:56)
You then that is, that is how it’s come. I’m so glad it’s coming out that way. cause that’s what I feel.

Bunny: (43:03)
What it’s and I want, you know, we don’t have much time left, but I want folks to know where they can find you. I mean, we’re gonna put a link to your website. Is it, what is your website?

Mary : (43:16)
It is, www.MaryMarialart.com

Bunny: (43:23)
Mary Maribel. So we’ll put a link to that in our resources. And I want folks to know it’s not just paintings. You have some textiles, some really fun things in there, don’t you?

Mary : (43:34)
Oh yes. Through, an association I have with Vida, they take your artwork and print it on the most fabulous fashion designs from shirts to handbag, scarves, workout, wear housewares and all kinds of, uh, beautiful, beautiful items. And that you can find that on my website as well.

Bunny: (44:03)
Well, Mary, I am so grateful. I’ve got some Santa Fe listeners, so they can find you at a Costa strong, right.

Mary : (44:12)
Uh,

Bunny: (44:13)
Or at,

Mary : (44:15)
And Santa Fe, you can find me at Hat Ranch gallery.

Bunny: (44:18)
Okay. And do they also have a gallery in Madrid?

Mary : (44:21)
Uh, no. It’s on their it’s. Yeah, but no. Okay.

Bunny: (44:25)
Got it. They’re

Mary : (44:26)
Just outside of Santa Fe.

Bunny: (44:28)
Okay. Well, um, I’m so excited. I’m so grateful that you agreed to do this. I want folks to know, I’ve been trying to talk you into this for a year.

Mary : (44:38)
Well, it’s been a crazy year and I’m so happy to be able to do it, you know, and I’ll be out there again, uh, first week in may. So I’m really looking forward to seeing you in person next time.

Bunny: (44:52)
Me too, me too. And, I’m grateful that we found one another, the way we did, I’m grateful you came and stuck your head in my office that day, it was perfect.

Mary : (45:01)
Everything happens for a reason.

Bunny: (45:03)
It does it does.

Mary : (45:04)
People come into your life. Yes. People come into your life for a reason. And I met and I think we were definitely meant to meet each other.

Bunny: (45:12)
Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, thank you, Mary. And, folks look in the links because I want you to go and look at Mary’s artwork. It’s amazing.

Speaker 4: (45:21)
That’s all we’ve got today. Friends. I wanna thank you for joining the lifesaving gratitude podcast with your host Bunny, Terry, that’s me and my producer and assistant at Johanna Medina. We feel like we’re in the business of sharing the stories that save us and we hope you’ll share as well by letting your friends and family know about the podcast follow and like us wherever you listed. And please take the time to leave a review, whether it’s a stellar comment or a suggestion, we are open to suggestions all the time. Also follow us on Instagram at live saving gratitude pod. You can also follow me personally at Bunny Terry, Santa Fe. You can sign up at my website at bunnyterry.com to receive weekly emails about how to become the ultimate gratitude nerd. Thanks so much for checking in.

Bunny: Hi everyone. This is Bunny with the Lifesaving Gratitude podcast. Just in case you don’t know me, I am a stage four colon cancer survivor and the author of Lifesaving Gratitude, which is a book about how gratitude helped me kick cancer’s ass. 

Today we’re going to talk to a special guest about how marketing and marketers can use gratitude to create business and connections with clients and also for themselves to create a really positive way to do their job. But first, I just want to thank you for being here and ask that you download the podcast if you’d like. And certainly subscribe wherever you listen to other podcasts. But enough about me and enough about the podcast. 

I want to introduce you to my special guest, who’s also a friend. Craig Cunningham is currently a realtor with Keller Williams, Santa Fe. And that’s how I met him. However, this is a recent career for him and he was, and correct me if I mispronounce the word, but you were a hotelier. Is that the way to say that?

Craig: Yes. 

Bunny: Yes. He’s spent 30 years in corporate sales and marketing. He’s traveled extensively. I’m going to let him tell you all the places that he’s been to, but he is the founder and principal of Cunningham + Colleagues marketing consultants. He was in the past the VP of marketing and quality for Seaport Hotels and World Centers and the VP of marketing for Core North America. So welcome Craig Cunningham.

Craig: Thanks so much for having me on your podcast.

Bunny: I’m excited. I know you have some great tips for all of our listeners. When I think about these podcasts, I always think about the people that are going to want the information we’re offering. I mean, we’re here to help people and we’re here to figure out how gratitude can make everyone’s life not just easier and simpler, but also fuller. So why don’t you start, Greg? Just tell us a little bit about yourself. Tell us how in the world you ended up in this completely different career? And yet the truth is we’re still just marketers first and realtors, second. Tell me a little bit about yourself. Tell our listeners.

Craig: Yeah. So, as you said, I’ve been in marketing and sales for more than 30 years. I actually started off with an advertising and PR agency and then had the good fortune to be hired by my hotel client at the time, Wyndham hotels. At that time it was a North American chain and it’s now international. 

But from then on, I was in the hotel business. It’s definitely a career where if you are not focused on client service and the whole concept of gratitude, you’re not going to be successful. I always thought of our job as just surprising and delighting our guests and making them feel like they chose the right hotel to be with. And so it was always about waking up every day and saying, “What can I do to make somebody’s day and to give them a great experience?” And, of course, to do this you have to be grateful because they opted to choose your hotel over the million other choices that they had. 

So when I retired from the hotel business two years ago, I was trying to figure out what else I wanted to do with my life. I started doing more volunteering. I volunteer with Kitchen Angels here in Santa Fe to deliver meals to people who are not able to leave their homes. But I also started thinking of whether I wanted to do something else from a professional standpoint and the real estate business seemed like a natural extension, because it’s all about client service. You have to figure out ways to make people feel like they’ve made the right choice in working with you. So it’s all about being grateful every day and figuring out what can I do to help them today. How else can I extend what I’m doing for them in a way that they will appreciate and know that I appreciate them. So that’s what it’s really all about, because of course they could work with a million other other people

Bunny: Right. And let’s talk for just a second. Don’t you think that marketing has changed over the 30 years that you’ve been doing this? I mean, it seems to me that when we were kids, which was back before the crust cooled, we were sort of marketed at. Just talk for a minute about how marketing is different now than it was 10 years ago or 30 years ago.

Craig: It’s funny, because I was going to say the exact same thing. Back in the day, you were running a TV ad or a radio spot or a print ad and it was passive in that you just presented the information, unless you were direct sales. But really with the advent of so much digital media, you are instantly able to forge a relationship with customers through social media, through Facebook, Instagram, where you’re having a dialogue with them from the very beginning. This allows you to work in a much more personal way and to be able to find out much more quickly how you can serve those people. 

So I think it’s changed completely. Before you just sort of put it out there into the ether and hope that something worked, and now you’re able to engage. And I’ve found that so much in real estate where I’m getting emails from folks and then it evolves from the email into a phone call or a zoom call or something like that instantly. I think that’s so much better for both people. Especially for somebody like me who wants to find ways to engage with people and to be of service to them, it makes it a lot easier and more rewarding.

Bunny: I just think about the ways that I connect with my clients. It’s as if you’re somehow conveying to those people that you’re grateful that they showed up.

Craig: Yeah, exactly. I mean, my whole thought is that it’s not a transaction, it’s a relationship. And that relationship can be multifaceted. Once you’ve sold them a house or sold their house, I like to think that we’ve formed a friendship and a bond and that relationship is going to continue. And honestly, I don’t even care if I ever get another piece of business for them. Now think of them as friends. I want to have them to my house for dinner or go have coffee or something like that. 

I think that kind of thing that makes a difference for people in wanting to work with me.  It’s coming from a position of wanting to be of service to them and wanting to make them happy and finding the right solution for them. I’m working with some first-time-buyers right now and I kind of feel like they’re my kids. It’s about, okay, how can I really help them with this? And they’re grateful for the counsel I’m able to give to them, and I’m grateful for the opportunity to work with them. So it’s very rewarding. I think if you approach business relationships in the same way as you would with your friends, it’s a win-win situation for everybody.

Bunny: Well, talking about those first-time home buyers, I mean, that’s one of my favorite deals. You never make the most money from those transactions, but I’m so grateful to be reminded that we are providing the American dream when we’re selling real estate. Yeah. It’s amazing. It’s my favorite experience.

Craig: Yeah. I mean, for somebody to have their first home and to be excited about how they’re going to decorate it and what they’re going to do. And with this young couple, seeing them excited when they see a house brings out all my empathy and makes me want to really go the extra mile for them to make sure they find the right house at the right price for them. And then I just never want to stop. So then it’s like, “Okay, now I’m going to find this person for you to do the plumbing, and I’m going to find this person, etc, and I’ll be with you with you  to help explain things.” I just want to really continue to be of service.

Bunny: I talk a lot, especially on my blog, about Judy Camp, who was one of my first real estate mentors. She was a great friend and Linda Gammons partner for a long time before she passed away. But Judy Camp always says, “If you come from contribution, you can’t help but be successful.”

Craig: Yeah. I mean, just as I was saying, you can’t think of it as a transaction. I think, coming from contribution, how can I help you? How can I make this a better experience? How can I make this work? Because, especially in a real estate transaction, it can be stressful. It’s the biggest financial transaction for the majority of us. So how do you take the burden and the pressure away from them and sort of guide them through the process? I just think the main thing is that it’s much more fun, whether you’re doing volunteer work or in business, to wake up every day and figure out how I could make it fun for somebody else. Because then it’s fun for you and it gets you excited and passionate about what you’re doing.

Bunny: Well, it sounds like our big “why’s” are really similar. I certainly don’t want to put any words in your mouth, but it sounds like your big “why” is just to make the life of the people you come in contact with better.

Craig: Yeah. Of course making money is nice, but there are lots of ways to make money. It’s more about whether you are getting energy from it. And I think you really get energy when you’re working with someone and trying to figure out how you can help them, how you can make their day better, how you can make the service that you’re providing better. And also just doing things that saying, “What about if I do X, Y, Z?” and they’re  like, “Oh, you’ll do that for me?” And I’m like, “Of course.”

I have another set of clients where the transaction was fairly complicated and we were looking at lots of properties. Coming from a corporate background, I love to do spreadsheets and PowerPoint presentations—things like that. And so after about the third thing we had to do, they’re like, “Oh, how are we going to organize all these bids?”  And then one of the guys said to the other guy, “Well, Craig’s going to do a spreadsheet for us. He’s probably already got it done.” So it’s that kind of thing where you’re looking for ways to make their experience better.

Bunny: So this is always a funny question for me to ask, because I have such a loose gratitude practice other than just waking up in the morning and saying, “thank you, thank you, thank you,” and then writing things down, but do you have a practice that you follow that helps you both in your business and your personal life?

Craig: Well, since I came into real estate with Keller Williams, which focuses a lot on being servant leaders and helping people, I’ve gotten into the habit of writing three things I’m grateful for that day. It could be that it’s a beautiful day or a dog or my partner or the opportunity to help somebody or the coffee’s really good that day, but waking up and appreciating what you have in your life is a good way to get in a good mindset for the rest of it.

Bunny: Oh, absolutely. Something I always say is that we kind of rewire our brains. We do. We create new neural pathways every time we say that we’re grateful. So in terms of nuts and bolts, is there a way that you let your clients know? I mean, I find that there are a lot of young people, young entrepreneurs or people who are new to business, who forget how to tell their clients how they’re grateful for them, even if it’s a line in an email. Do you have something that you do specifically over and over?

Craig: I think for me, it’s maybe more in the actions. I think of “This is really going to be helpful if I do this or if I provide this information.” I think it’s always in my voice and the way that I write. I try to always communicate openly and in a friendly and conversational manner. But then I also think “It would be really cool and really helpful if I did X , Y , Z.” I created a whole PowerPoint just on the neighborhoods in Santa Fe, because if you’re out of town it gets confusing. And that came out of a client saying, “Well, I don’t really know the neighborhoods.” And I thought that this would be a great tool for them. So I created it and then I was able to use it with others. 

So I think for me, maybe it’s sort of on the fly. I used to say in the hotel hotel business, “How can I make this a wow experience?” Because the other way to think about it is that every relationship is with people. When you’re in a service business you’re really in the business of creating memories. You can create good memories or you can create bad memory and it’s much more fun to create good memories.

Bunny: And that just comes from a spirit of generosity. I mean, you obviously want this to be the best real estate experience they’ve ever had.

Craig: Right. Right. I’m very grateful for the people that have helped me along the way. I’ve been very fortunate in my career to always work for people who were concerned about my career development and my personal development and became dear friends. And I’ve had a couple of bosses that have hired me twice in two different jobs. So I’m always grateful for the things that other people have done for me. 

So then I want to pay it forward. When I came to Keller Williams and I was introduced to the team here, there was so much openness and willingness to share and help and support. It has been fantastic. What strikes me the most is how grateful I am for what other people have done for me. And how do I pay that back?

Bunny: I mean, this is not a podcast to plug Keller Williams. It’s really more to talk about mindset, but the place where I learned it was sitting in that training room and learning that my mindset was the secret sauce. I mean, that’s the success piece, right?

Craig: Yeah, exactly. It’s not just about production and everything. It’s about weight and having a sense of gratitude and contribution and a sense of abundance. And I don’t mean that in a monetary way. It could be abundance in your health or your friends or all of that kind of stuff. And I think back to you. Your experience with cancer was far worse than mine, but I did have prostate cancer about nine years ago. Everyone I worked with during that entire time when I was going for radiation every day for 10 weeks was so supportive. And then on the last day of radiation, there was this very important meeting, and everyone knew it was my last day.My whole team had a celebration for me on my last day. That was turning something that was obviously a challenging situation into something where I knew they really cared about me and supported me.

Bunny: Wow. I’m interested to hear how your mindset was in the middle of that? 

Craig: I’m just by nature, an optimistic person. So even though it was scary, I felt like I was in good hands from a medical standpoint and I just felt like I was gonna beat it. I had done the education that I needed to and then it was really about having a positive mindset. 

This is probably too much information, but I’ll say it anyway. You’re doing the radiation stripped down to your boxer shorts. And so I jokingly put this Facebook thing about the fact that I needed a new pair of boxer shorts for every day. And people started sending me underwear—different pairs of boxer shorts for every day. So while I was sitting there in the big machine, where you’re sort of in there and it’s buzzing and scanning and all that kind of stuff, it got to be kind of a joke with the techs:  “Oh , what’s he going to be wearing today?”

Bunny: I love that.

Craig: That was a way to keep my spirits up. And also during that process, I really learned how to be very focused. I was in a waiting room with people that were going through, frankly, worse things than prostate cancer. Don’t get me wrong, prostate cancer is pretty serious. It is. People die from it. But I was seeing so many other people that were having a much more challenging time than I was. And we became a family. We all bonded together during that process, because we were all waiting, sometimes for an hour. So it’s things like that. And also things like the kitchen angels service, where it helps reboot you every day for how grateful you should be in your own life and grateful for the opportunity to help other people.

Bunny: Right. There are tons of people who do get what a gift it is. People who don’t even have a specific gratitude practice, but at least an attitude every day that you’re going to figure out something. I just wrote a blog post on limiting beliefs and one of the things that I wanted to convey is that we get to choose every single moment how we view the world. And maybe for somebody out there who’s brand new in business or who’s starting a new business. I just read a statistic that said that the entrepreneur demographics are changing. And now like 48% of new entrepreneurs are over 50. So hooray for the old people! 

But I know that there are people out there right now who are thinking, “Well, I’m not any good at marketing. I’m not any good at that piece of it. I can sell stuff, but I’m not good at the marketing stuff.” I’ve got to tell you, I’m married to a guy who doesn’t believe in self promotion because he came from a generation when you played down your assets, instead of being grateful for them and talking about them. So I’d love to hear what you have to say to somebody who has that limiting belief that they can’t market. And they can’t promote themselves.

Craig: You know, we could all market ourselves, and we do it every day in our interactions.  Whether we think of it as marketing or not, we’re marketing ourselves all day long in how we react and treat other people. The thought I had as you were talking about your husband thinking self-promotion sounds like a dirty word is that it doesn’t have to be you talking  about “me, me, me” and “I did this million dollars in revenue.” This is kind of a turnoff in some ways, because you’re talking about yourself. But if you’re talking about how you can help somebody else and how you can provide a good experience for them with your information and knowledge, you’re not talking about yourself in that context. You’re talking about how you can be of service. I think that’s a much easier way for a lot of people from a generation where we weren’t really supposed to be talking about ourselves.

Bunny: Well, it was pre-social media. Our face wasn’t out there. We just weren’t trained to tell people, “Here’s the reason you should hire me instead of the other person.”

Craig: Yeah, exactly. I mean, now we’re all our own brands on social media. But I think that rather than saying to somebody, “Here’s why you should hire me versus somebody else,” you should just talk about how you can be of service in what you do in an authentic way. Then people are more likely to want to work with you, because you’re radiating a sense of positivity and an interest in them. And they’re not thinking that you just look at them as a transaction and then you’re onto the next person.

Bunny: I frequently use with my marketing coaching clients the example of a dinner party. If you went into a dinner party (and this is for people who are just beginning in whatever business they’re in, especially if they’re self-employed), you wouldn’t simply walk in, take your coat off and say, “Hey, I’m selling something, come and talk to me.” Right? I mean, that’s what you don’t want to do with marketing. You want to start by building a relationship. Can you talk a little bit about that? 

Craig: I think it goes all the way back to Dale Carnegie’s How to Win Friends and Influence People. People do like to talk about themselves. And so the first thing is you should be listening. That was one of the first things I learned in marketing client service. You need to ask questions and learn from your clients. Focus on what they need, as opposed to talking about yourself. You really want to establish a dialogue with them about their wants and needs and hopes and fears and everything else. Then you can talk about how you can address them. But nobody wants to go in and all of a sudden have you sit down and say, “Here’s my PowerPoint about me and what I’ve done.” It should be more of establishing, from the very beginning, a relationship of openness with folks. Then, after hearing from them, you can say “Well, here’s how I think I can you and here are some ideas that I have that I could share with you.” So I think a key thing is really listening from the very beginning.

Bunny: I even found that to be helpful when I used to first go on listing appointments. I was so nervous that I would sit down and I would immediately try to book an appointment. You know, if you’re not in real estate, a listing appointment is just like sitting down with a prospective customer. I would be so nervous in the beginning and really coming from a place of scarcity where I thought, “If I don’t get this listing, I’m not sure I can pay the rent next month.” And if you’re coming from a place of scarcity, you’re likely to self-sabotage. But that’s such good advice because things changed when I finally learned how to sit back and listen: “I’m here to help you. Tell me what it is that you need. Talk to me.” It’s so powerful to give a client time to talk to you. And I think people forget to do that, right?

Craig: Yeah. And I think sometimes we do it because we’re afraid. What I’ve learned so much over the years in business working with people is that people are terrified of silence, so they will immediately start talking. If there’s a second of silence, you jump in and start babbling. Lord knows I do it. But if you just let somebody talk and let it sort of sit there for a second and not just try to be filling in all the time. It drives me crazy when people are doing that. It’s much better if you can have the client talk and then ask some more questions and then be warm and reflective about it. Back to the Dale Carnegie thing, I think one of his first points was if you’re at the dinner party, ask people about themselves. Most people do like to talk about themselves. So ask them and don’t just start talking about yourself. 

Bunny: I think that even people who would say, “I don’t like to talk about myself,” really do want somebody to ask them and listen to them.

Craig: Yeah. And it’s not just asking them to go on and on. It’s more meaningful questions about, for example, why they decided to move here. Just those kinds of questions that get them thinking. Growing up in materialistic Dallas, the joke was that the questions at a party were like, “Where do you live? What do you do? What do you drive?” And so it’s not questions like that. It’s asking them more about their life experience,

Bunny: You just brought me to another completely different point, which is for any realtors out there listening: I think it’s really important to convey to your clients how grateful you are for where you live. I mean, if our lifestyle is such a selling point, don’t you think you should share that?

Craig: Oh, yeah, exactly. I mean, living in Santa Fe there’s so much beauty. I’m looking out my window right now at the beautiful blue sky. When I leave my house in the morning and I see the mountains, and then when I’m coming home at night and the sun is setting over the mountains and I see all the different colors and everything, it’s just breathtaking. It’s great to live in such a great and wonderful environment and in a place that is very spiritual, going back with the native Americans—respect for the earth and nature and all of those things—I think it does help center us more than a lot of other places.

Bunny: How do you convey that to your clients? I know you’re doing something really cool online that’s different from some other realtors.

Craig: Well, I’m not just posting on my Facebook page,” Hey, I just sold this house or just sold that house.” Well, that’s great. But I’m more talking about new experiences in Santa Fe: new restaurants, or a new place to go hiking, or something exciting that’s happening at one of the museums or things like that—enthusiastically talking about the experience of living in Santa Fe. And if down the road, by the way, you’re looking at this stuff and you decide you want to buy a house here, I would love to help you. But it’s more about conveying the reason why we all want to live here

Bunny: And tell us about your blog, because I think it’s amazing.

Craig: So I created this blog, which is called Santa Fe Scenes. It’s that same kind of thing where it’s just talking about having fun in Santa Fe. One of the things was, you know, we’ve got the old Santa Fe trail and we’ve got the old Pincus trail, but did you know that we had a Margarita trail and a Chocolate trail? Stuff like that. Just being whimsical about it and talking about some of the things are unique about the city and sharing my own passion for Santa Fe. I was very fortunate to be able to do a lot of international travel for my job. I was grateful for the opportunity that I was given to see places that I wouldn’t have seen otherwise from Bogota to Sao Paulo and Rio de Janeiro and Beijing and places like that. So I’ve always been enthusiastic about travel and now living in such a beautiful place like Santa Fe, I want to share that enthusiasm with people.

Bunny: And you’re getting some good feedback on that I bet, right?

Craig: Yes, I am. I’m getting good feedback on it. It’s been a wonderful thing to reconnect with friends who are saying, “Good for you, you old dog! You’re back out there trying something new.” Because whenever someone says, “Oh, you’re a new realtor,” I say, “Well, I’m an old new realtor. I’m 61 and I’m starting this for the first time.” But it’s been great from that perspective and the support that you get from your friends. Then people are saying, “Oh, well, I know somebody who might be interested in sending you that information.” I think that’s one of the positive things that social media has done where we’ve been able to reconnect with so many people that we might have completely lost touch with.

Bunny: Oh yeah. I did a post not very long ago about how grateful I was, and it was in the middle of all the fear over Facebook and Twitter. And I just said that it’s such a great platform for reconnecting with cousins that I haven’t seen since I was six. I mean, I just turned 60. I’m an old dog and this is a new trick for me, but I think that if you use it the right way, it’s a real gift. I also think there are so many realtors, like you said, who just post either pictures of houses that they have listed or their accomplishments. And I think they’re really missing an opportunity.

Craig: Yeah. Because then you’re just talking at someone. You’re not sharing information and excitement about things with them. People don’t want to look at that stuff. They want to look at things like the fact that there are like six great chocolate tiers in Santa Fe. And then the next time I’m in town, I want to go to each one of them. Or discovering an amazing new hiking trail or a beautiful image of a shop window or a piece of art or something like that. 

Bunny: Yeah, it’s so much better than “I just listed this house at 123 main street. Don’t you wish you owned it?” Exactly.

Craig: Exactly. I think more people would react to it. I’d really like to have some of that green chili chocolate over at The Chocolate Smith or whatever. It’s much more interesting than a picture of a kitchen that has granite countertops. Oh my goodness.

Bunny: And, you know, Craig, I found that people will call me and they’ll say, “Well, I’ve been following you on Facebook for two years. And I feel like you’re my best friend. I think you’d be the right person to show me around and help me find a house.” And I bet that’s happening to you too.

Craig: Yeah, exactly. It’s funny, you mentioned that. One of the people I’ve been mentoring told me a story about how she posted a lovely picture of herself and then somebody called her and said, “I feel like I already know you because you just look like a nice person and I feel like I can trust you.” I think also that it’s our eyes and our smile and everything that conveys so much of what you’re talking about. If you have a spirit of gratitude and service and a sense of abundance, not scarcity, it shows in your face, your eyes, your smile, and your whole persona.

Bunny: Well, we’re going to have to wrap up here in a minute, but I would love to hear if you have just three great tips that you would give to somebody who feels kind of stuck in their marketing. It could be what you’ve learned in 30 years or in the last three days, whatever it is.

Craig: I think one is changing your question from “How do I market myself?” to “What can I do for this client?” or “What can I do that’s going to excite the people? How can I make them feel appreciated and valued?” And this can work in cases where you’re actually working one-on-one with a client or cases where you’re trying to figure out how to promote what you’re doing. How do I find ways to surprise and delight people? So I like to do that with social media buys, where you come up with quirky, little things to talk about that are authentically Santa Fe or a funny picture of my dog or something like that. You want to put a smile on people’s faces. And social media gives us so many opportunities to be able to do that in ways that we couldn’t before. So the main thing at the end of it is to put your client first, and then I think everything else will come from there.

Bunny: You’re absolutely right. I think as long as your passion is helping people, then success is just a natural by-product of that.

Craig: Exactly. People feel that energy and then they want to tell their friends about you.

Bunny: What I’ve found is that people want to be able to trust somebody, especially in this business where they’re making possibly the biggest purchase of their life.

Craig: Right? I’m thinking back to these younger clients. We were touring houses, and they were interested in one particular house and I was like, “No, I’m not going to let you buy this. This is not the right move.” And I think all of a sudden they’re like, “Wow, he really cares. He’s not just thinking ‘Tick tock, tick tock. We’ve seen three houses.’” This is not House Hunters International where there are the three properties and you have to buy one. So again, it’s not a transaction. It’s a journey. It’s a relationship.

Bunny: I think that’s the most important tip for somebody to take away. Whether you’re selling widgets or earrings or house cars or houses, this is not a transaction. It’s a relationship. We want people to trust you and come back over and over. I don’t know how you can love your job if you’re not doing it the way we’re doing it.

Craig: Yeah, exactly. And have fun with it. We get to meet interesting people all day long. We get to see things. We get to use our own creativity to express ourselves. I know there are people that are in jobs that don’t have that. But I also read things about  the janitor in an elementary school who takes real pride in what they do, and they are going to do the best job that they possibly can. So I think in almost everything, you can come at it with a mindset of “How can I make this a great experience for me and for others?”

Bunny: That’s great stuff. Tell us where people can find you and where they can find your blog.

Craig: Well, probably the most fun thing I’m doing is the Santa Fe Scenes blog. 

Bunny: Okay. And we’ll share that on the information page for the podcast. And then, of course, if people want to buy a house from you, they can find you through there?

Craig: Yeah. All my information is on there. So one stop shop.

Bunny: Craig, I’m so excited that you were here. This was fun. I think we could do it again.

Craig: Yeah. Yeah.

Bunny: Because I think this is the place where people get stuck. People who are self-employed get stuck in this part. And so I think there’s a lot of stuff that we can talk about.  But I’m of course really grateful that you agreed to talk with us.

Craig: Oh, thanks. It’s been a lot of fun. I appreciate it. 

Bunny: And to everybody else, thanks for being here. This is once again, the Lifesaving Gratitude podcast. I’m Bunny Terry. You are welcome to go to my website if you’d like to learn more about me and about buying my book, which is all about gratitude and how gratitude helped me kick stage four cancer’s ass. And we’d love to have you follow us and subscribe on spot Spotify, Apple, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Thanks so much, Craig.

Craig: Thank you. Next time.