62. Gratitude for Sharing Your Legacy: Julianne Bosch

Bunny: (00:09)
Folks today. I’m so excited. We have a special guest and she just published a new book that I think you’re gonna find interesting and hilarious and heartwarming and, and, and fun. Even though it’s filled with some mom advice, you know, sometimes we don’t think of mom advice as much fun, but this is fun. Our guest today is Julianne Bosch, and she just published in April. I believe I’m getting that right. A book called how a mother took her first step on the moon and I love the title. And I love the idea of writing a book as a gift to your children on your 50th birthday. But Julianne, I could, I could go through your entire bio and read it, but what I really want is for our listeners to hear your story from your mouth, tell us who you are. Tell us. I don’t know what keeps you up at night. What’s most important to you, how you got here.

Julianne: (01:04)
First of all, thank you for having me. I’m excited to be here. What keeps me up at night? , my three adult children. I will say, give me a little bit of course to keep worrying. It doesn’t matter. Little kids, little problems, big kids, big problems. It’s still, you still worry about them. But about myself, I am a career in life coach. I have been married 28 years. I’ve moved 13 times to four continents, and I was about to have my 50th birthday and I was dreading being half of a hundred. And I have a cousin that unfortunately was diagnosed with anaplastic thyroid cancer. And we were sitting there, and she said, all I can pray is my goal is to make it to my next birthday. And after that birthday is my next birthday and it really kind of kicked me in the pants and it said, wow, if a I had the knowledge that it was a finite time, what would I do?

Julianne: (02:10)
And that’s what spurred the writing of this book. And then, , because of my work, I, I really wanted to help mothers and new mothers in the trenches at this point, kind of align with what I do for a living is coaching is be a mother with intention and help them not tell them what to do, but give them a little piece of advice and then craft the framework for their own lives of what advice they wanna take and how they want to decipher kind of where they’re going and, and help their children to be the best versions of themselves that they can possibly be.

Bunny: (02:51)
So am I hearing you correctly? When do you primarily coach moms?

Julianne: (02:55)
Yes. I love moms between the ages of 28 and 48, because I’ve had well I hate to say that now I have a 50 year old mom that has twins, that she just adopted twins. So executive mom, , doesn’t have to be, a mom that’s working, but has worked, trying to figure out kind of that work life balance and where she’s headed. And we all admit it. We have chaos and, and thought processes of, am I doing the right thing right now for me? And, , so yes, I love coaching moms and executive moms so.

Bunny: (03:34)
Well, and twins in particular provide their own amazing set of circstances. And you had twins yourself right?

Julianne: (03:44)
I have twins that are now 24. One’s in Chicago. One’s in New York. Both just thriving, successfully. And then, my baby is 21 and she just graduated from college in California, and she is also heading to New York. She will be a consultant. So, I’m thrilled. They have far exceeded what I thought that they would do in their lives. And they just humbled me because they do it with a lot more graciousness and volunteering and they get out there and do things that I’m like, wow, I wish I did that in my twenties. so

Bunny: (04:21)
Right. Instead of, I don’t know what your twenties were like, mine were sort of like just surviving the place that I had gotten. And, and, and of course my kids were little in my twenties, but I wanna hear, so there are several things that I, you know, I really loved and I’m being honest. I just read like the first two chapters of the book, because I, you know, we, we do this schedule rather quickly, but first of all, I love your style of writing. It seems, you know, in, in your bio, you talk about celebrating, the fun parts and the serious parts. Well, I gotta tell you, you write in sort of a celebratory manner anyway, it’s really joyous, which, which I, which I love. I mean, how, how are you going to impart any sort of intentional? I don’t even know. I mean the minute I say this, it sounds really dead and boring and, you know, intentional wisdom or help to a young mother if it’s not, humorous and joyous at the same time, because that seems to me, What parenting is.

Julianne: (05:32)
Yeah

Julianne: (05:34)
Like anyway, as you say, with, with age comes wisdom, I realized, you know, this was of all the jobs and occupations. , I just had this reality kick of, of this was the best job in the world. And we’re not like taught that. Nobody says, Hey, you get a big bonus or , so I wrote the book, , showing you some of my failures, some of the things that I humorously , reflected on and went, oh my gosh, I can’t even believe I did that. Not, not to tell you like, this is the way to do it, because if you look at the pieces of advice, they’re pretty standard. I mean, maybe my mother and my grandmother taught me some of these, but I wanted you to look at, or I wanted mothers to look at, okay, this happened to her. This is her advice.

Julianne: (06:23)
But for example, integrity, you know, what is your stance on that? What are you allowing to say? No. What are you allowing to say? Yes. But knowing that Julian kind of, messed it up, , I think it also gives moms the ability to say, Hey, she just gave me permission to like, I’m gonna fail. It’s gonna happen. But as a mother, you know, it’s like having that grace to, embrace, this is the best job I’m gonna keep working at it because the children at the end are worth the investment. And , and now I’m reaping the rewards of that. So I want to help, , mothers kind of understand that there’s no perfect solution. There’s no perfect advice, but take bits and pieces and adapt it to what best fits for you and your family. And then like lock it in. And I think that is something that, you know, the world is chaotic right now.

Julianne: (07:15)
We have pandemic, we have war, we have, , men telling us, you know, this is the law and you can’t do X, you know? And I think if we create kind of that safety zone at home, they’re able to, our children are able to go out into the world and say, , that doesn’t align with my values and my beliefs. This is what I’ve been taught. This is what I have conversations with my parents about. And I know this about me, and then I can say, Nope, I’m not gonna do that. Yep. I’m gonna do that. And I, and I see my children because I created that safety zone kind of framework. They are able to navigate the world so much better than we did at our twenties because they know who they are in their twenties stronger. And I think that’s what we can provide our kids at this crazy time of being on the earth. So,

Bunny: (08:06)
Well, you said something really important there, because in addition to all that chaos, you said, there’s no perfect way to do it. And I just, last week on the podcast had a young woman who has children, who I believe are now five and six, but they, I mean, they’re 13 months apart. And I don’t know, I, I don’t know if it’s harder to have twins or to have kids who are 13 months apart. I have no idea. I know babies present their own challenge and then toddlers present a crazy challenge. And so, but what we talked about and what I think is really important and probably refreshing about the way you write is that, is that there’s also these voices in their head and these images on the, in, on Instagram that say, wow, mm-hmm everyone is doing this better than I am. I mean, I didn’t have Instagram. And I still thought everybody was doing this better than I was. I don’t know how it was for you, but you know, I have two kids and they’re per I think they’re perfect now, but at the time I,

Julianne: (09:06)
Yeah.

Bunny: (09:07)
And, and I’m so getting this wrong,

Julianne: (09:09)
, in this book, you know, there were moments when I, I was like, gosh, do I put that out in the world? But you know, we show up at a bake sale as a mom and your cupcakes look like droopy blobs of something and then, you know, you have, you know, the mother that made him like Martha Stewart, so yeah. Or,

Bunny: (09:30)
Or you totally forget the bake.

Julianne: (09:32)
Yeah. Well, I just, yeah, that’s where I don’t wanna give mothers the, the breath of fresh air and say, okay, you know, this is, this is a reality check. This is what I can’t accomplish. I’m not that perfect Instagram photo. , you know, it’s lucky sometimes that, you know, I, my underwear was put on inside out, you know, at times. And, and I write about those so that,  not only I could help mother mothers, but I hope one day when my own daughters are mothers, they can look and say, Hey, this is what my mom experienced. And I have a little bit more compassion and a little bit more understanding for the choices she made, because I think we are as women a little bit hard on why did my mom do that? Or why did she talk about that? Or, you know, so it, it also, you know, I’ve, I’ve been given kind of the decades advice.

Julianne: (10:26)
, one mother wrote me, thank you so much for your book. I read it. I don’t have grandkids yet, but I created an email address for my unborn grandkids. And I’m documenting my memories right now, so that they have them in case something should happen to me. And that was like, the biggest compliment to me is to know that we’re starting to get out of the box a little bit. The book has provoked some pivot to say, Hey, I wanna make sure if this grandma gave me an example, I got in an accident today. This is what I did grandchild, it wasn’t the best. I, you know, I didn’t call the police. And now I’m dealing with these issues or things that are happening that I, you know, took on a cuff at that time. But then with that legacy or that memory piece, , it helps our kids like navigate my, my mom didn’t know all the answers and I nor do I, because we have not been challenged with all the social media that our kids have right now.

Julianne: (11:25)
And I think they can see what we’ve accomplished to this point. And then knowing that that information kind of navigate things and say, okay, this is what I’d hold true. And how do I wanna go forth? And how do I want my kids to kind of navigate social media? I mean, I, I write a book about, , I told my kids, , that if their great grandmother, ya Maria saw something on social media, would you be okay with her questioning you about that picture or something? And my kids were like, oh, gads, you know, like, and it still holds true today just because of that one provocative question. , and I’m proud to say, you know, it’s kept kind of that Audrey Hepburn look for, for my girls, you know, and, , sure. Maybe something flipped or something didn’t go the right way. But I, I do believe that if we kind of keep leaving this women’s legacy piece, it will help our daughters and our kids of our daughters and sons, , to kind of navigate a little bit more and that first step. And that’s kind of how that book came about is it’s just this first step it’s fearful being a mother is not an easy task. It’s not an easy mission. So,

Bunny: (12:45)
So you, I do, I wanna talk about that, that piece about how we can start to docent our advice, but first I wanna talk about some of, some of your favorite pieces of advice. Let’s just, you know, I always want our listeners to have really practical pieces to take away. And I certainly want people to get this, you know, a snippet of your book so that they wanna buy the entire book and read it. But so, so in practical terms, what do you think, what have you heard back from readers that they’re finding the most helpful? Other, other than the piece of not documenting.

Julianne: (13:20)
I write one story line called “use Interesting Instead.” the world is changing. We’re seeing things differently. And, , I taught my kids because of a teacher who said in, when you, when your children see something that is not their norm, we want to use the word interesting instead. And so my kids actually taught me this. They came home and told me, mom, this is what we’re supposed to say. And I was like, Hmm, that’s a great piece of advice. So then take that a, along a 15, 20 years of moving all over the country and you’re seeing cultures and, and you know, events that are not normal for me, I wouldn’t, in how do you say it? When I was in situations of dinners or things like that, and it wasn’t something I was accustomed to, I would say, Hmm, that’s interesting.

Julianne: (14:19)
And it always saved me. It always gave me that time to kind of just reflect and say, okay, I don’t know what that is to eat, or I don’t know what this custom is that I’m supposed to say. And, and now we have all these different cultures coming into what was kind of our norm or our neighborhood. But if we keep that piece of advice of interesting, I think it opens up doors instead of closing the door and making things harder for yourself. So, I have heard a lot about that chapter, that they are teaching their kids to use interesting when they are laughing inside or giggling, or, you know, unsure of what they’re seeing.

Bunny: (15:01)
That’s so funny because I had a coach, when I was in it, well, a business coach who said I would come in and, and I would say, oh, this thing happened. And this thing happened. And I, this client is making me crazy. And instead of saying, well, you know, let’s figure that out. She would wave her hands in the air and she’d say, that’s so interesting. Now what’s the answer. She would never, it was, it was, and it wasn’t that she refused to sympathize with me. It was that she, it, that was her response to, to get me to the next step. So it sounds, yeah, somewhat similar. It just brought that memory back where she, it was, she wouldn’t feed my angst. She would just say, well, how

Julianne: (15:45)
Interesting. Yeah. And as a client, I mean, I, I’m sure you felt too, like she didn’t judge you to say, oh, well, that’s not important, or let’s move on from there. I find it’s open doors and now my kids even use it in situations. And, and if we can keep teaching them vocabulary and, and the way to present themselves, I think it just only serves your child. When they’re out in the world looking for a job or meeting new people or starting a new club of friendship through in work or school. , but that, that chapter has struck a chord with many of my mothers so far. And, I’m appreciative. I’m glad I put it in there, cuz it was, I wasn’t quite sure about that. On the flip note, you know, I wrote a chapter about don’t assume, you know, all the facts.

Julianne: (16:37)
And I tell about a funny story about, , how I was in a rush and I went to the gynecologist and I quickly cleaned up down below and I got in there and he was looking at me like, wow, this is a Fiesta, you know, and I’m thinking, oh gosh, this guy’s creepy. You know, I need to change, you know, OBGYNs. Right. And, little did. I know that my dear sweet child had been guarding her glitter in a washcloth and I happened to use that washcloth going to the OB G YN. So and I tell that story that yeah. So he was thinking, wow, she got all decorated for me. Whereas I’m thinking this guy is creepy. And yeah, he was super professional was very much a doctor and , , but your brain thought went somewhere else.

Julianne: (17:33)
And so I just, , I used that as an example of saying, as a mother, you may come into a Sy system of you think that this is the right answer, but don’t know kind of what’s going on in the background. And, and it’s a funny story, but at the same time that one has also hit home cuz you know, women are able to laugh. Like I can’t believe you wrote about that. You know and I said, well, it was an embarrassing moment. So I thought I needed to share that. Yeah. Embarrassing stuff happens, but it’s how you roll with it afterwards, so.

Bunny: (18:04)
Right, right. Right. And did you have, I mean, you talk about, , staying consistent even though, I mean you moved tell which, which continents have

Julianne: (18:14)
You lived in? , we lived in Asia, so we were in Tokyo, Japan. We lived in Europe. I was in Dublin, Ireland. I lived in, Mexico, so Mexico city and all over the United States. And, then prior to our children, we did a little bit of stint in south America. So,

Bunny: (18:32)
So with kids, I I’m curious. , I mean, how do you keep things consistent? Because it seems to, I think consistency always wins. Yeah. I mean even when, when you don’t know anything else as, especially with kids, as long as they know, like where are their sleeping, where their blanket is as long I’m, I’m just curious about what, what she would tell moms about

Julianne: (18:55)
Consistency. That is the one and how you think. Yeah. Well, I mean, I think that’s the only way I was able to handle languages and cultures and it was what happens in our home is the law , you know, at this point, you know, bedtime is the, that doesn’t change. It doesn’t matter if we’re, , you know, out in a different culture where that they stay up. I mean, my Spanish in-laws in that, you know, would stay up until one, two in the morning and not even blink an eye. And I was like, do you have to deal with the baby at, you know, who has been going to bed at 2:00 AM? No, I do. you know, so I think, , I just kept that consistency for my own sanity as a mother. Sometimes you question it, but even now that is the one thing that was reliable and kids need that, , solid base and that foundation, like this is the rules of how my mom operates.

Julianne: (19:51)
It’s just what it happens. Like I told them, you know, they could depend on me for anything as long as they told me all the facts, you know, I said, things happen. There’s always a need for a plan B, but my kids to the Testament where, , my son got older and they, they put all the boys of a classroom into a room and they said, you can discuss any UN you know, unpopular topic. And they had a policeman in there and they had a couple, , high profile positions and they said, who here, if you were like, put into jail would call your mom. And my son said, mom, I was almost the only one that raised my hand and that wow was an impact on him because he said to me, it, it showed me that I had the trust even when he was in his teens.

Bunny: (20:43)
That that is so interesting because we listen, I’m using that word even. , and, and this is sort of a hard topic and certainly we can edit it if you want to, but I’ve even, even after the ruling last week, I’ve thought if, if, if, if parents were more willing to hear that they had kids who were in a tough spot in terms of reproductive rights, , it seems that we, people that, that, that as parents and as, and as children, people would. I mean, if, if there, if people were just more willing to be the parent who would listen, it seems that we would be in less of a crisis. I don’t know, that’s a pretty heavy topic, but I it’s really been on my heart

Julianne: (21:32)
Lately. I just, I think it boils down to the communication that you are creating in your home. And I think every story has two sides to it. And that’s how I always tried to look at it as, you know, my mother hat has one side of that story. And then if I was her best friend or if I was his best friend, what’s the side of the story of that. And again, I, you know, I dropped the ball many times, but I also had to say to my kids, I’m sorry, I, I made a mistake or, but that also shows your kids as they’re growing older, because I think it’s this always like give or take, there are, there is a point where you’re teaching your children and then all of a sudden you start to learn from your own children.

Julianne: (22:22)
Like I, you know, I vividly remember, right? My daughter become very, she became very active in the black lives matter marches. And at one time she turned her cell phone off and I couldn’t, I, I had no idea where she was. And that was a point where I realized I failed that she couldn’t sit down and talk to me about what she was feeling and what her needs were at that time to, to have a discussion of why she needed to turn her phone off, to not show me kind of where she was and what she was doing. And of course your mind goes crazy thinking what’s gonna happen. And then I saw on the news, of course she was living in Los Angeles. The, the tanks arrived downtown. And all I could think of is there’s my daughter, she’s gonna be right there in front of them. , but since

Bunny: (23:13)
It’ll be ti and stark,

Julianne: (23:15)
Where all of refreshing is, I admitted to her, I said, then you didn’t feel confident enough to have that discussion with me. And since then she has given me, I mean, tons of books, knowledge is power, and she’s given me books and it has opened my frame of mind to think about things differently. And that’s all I ask parents to do is, is open a communication that you, you may not change your way of, or your belief. That’s okay. You, you know, like we’re talking about this, , abortion law, you may have something that is set, but the fact that you sit down and you have communication that your child can say, this is my point of view. This is where I’m coming from. I think that’s healthy because they have so much that we never had as young adults or even young children, , that we didn’t experience. So if they can have those communications and those, , healthy conversations, I think you are creating a home of learning and a home of forward thinking, regardless of if you’re conservative or liberal, it doesn’t matter. , cuz you know, you want your child to feel, , safe enough to have conversations in the spot that they should be able to have conversations.

Bunny: (24:34)
Well, I, I agree a hundred percent with all of that. And I also think there’s something about making, letting them know that they have so much value that there’s nothing they can say that’s ever going to change the way you feel about them. I guess that’s, you know, as long as your kids understand unconditional love, which I grew up with and I hope I’ve given to my kids, but you know, if they feel that their position is precarious that they may be unwilling to share things that are hard.

Julianne: (25:06)
Yeah. Well I think it was like it came for full circle for me. I, I was given another opportunity for a podcast and I sat down with three young black fathers and we had the communication about wow parenting with intention. And I said, right there, that is what all this is about. If communication doesn’t happen and a book sparks an interest then you know, why, why did you put and invest the time in writing a book? But for me it was such a gratification of just having that conversation with these very intelligent young men. And they wanted to prevent their daughters becoming pregnant at a young age. And what, what’s the conversation? How do we start that? What do we do? And I was like, wow, how refreshing? I said, how old’s your daughter? And he is like four. I said, go take her to the grocery store right now and show her how much diapers cost and how much formula costs and have practical conversations on things that you can talk about right now, meaning it’s expensive to have a child.

Julianne: (26:10)
So be ready for that obligation because I love you to death as a four year old in my life. And I want you to know that I want you to have the best of education and the best of the things that I can provide for you on your back. But that was kind of like my biggest win is when I sat there and, and talked to these three very smart men and they wanted solutions for their own children, , in a totally different world than mine. So that was, you know, a, a step on the moon, a first step on the moon for me as a mom. So,

Bunny: (26:45)
Well, I guess I should ask

Julianne: (26:46)
You where, well I was sitting there. , my girlfriend used to be in American greetings, , and hallmark designer and we, she got a new puppy and we were in her front yard picking up dog poo. So natural you know, mom things that we do. And I kept saying, God, the book that, you know, we used the whole time with our kids was goodnight moon. And every mom, I know somehow picks that up in a library. That’s right. And so we did a spoof off of that. She drew that cover for me. And we did a spoof off of the goodnight moon and did it as kind of a mother with a Neil Armstrong. You know, this is scary. We’re taking a step on the moon, but it’s looking through the window kind of like goodnight moon. And, my father who is such a big impact on me always gave me some flowers. And so it was sitting on the window seal he has since passed away. And I I’m fortunate only I have my mother left, but I just, it was kind of a nod to him. Like thank you for allowing me that first step.

Bunny: (27:56)
That’s so cool. Well, so, so talk about the other piece. Talk about your you’re a mom and your, you know, mom like me, I’m 61, I’m a mom, I’m a grandmother. , how do, how do we start to preserve those memories and that advice that’s, that’s important. I mean, not everybody’s written a book like you have Julianne, so how do we start to preserve that?

Julianne: (28:22)
Yeah,

Bunny: (28:22)
Love. Cause we want our kids To know us about.

Julianne: (28:23),

The way I set this book up was is I don’t ask, , questions of motherhood. I ask you questions about your own beliefs and your values. And I ask you to journal them in the book, which is like against, you know, all the rules don’t write in books, you know, and I ask you to write as a journal. That’s why I put it as a keepsake journal and write what your thought processes are in the book about those stories. And then I ask you to kind of start thinking about what you’re grateful for. And then I ask you one time a month to write those memories of, you know, great things that happen to you with your grandkids or to you with your own children. And then all of a sudden, you’ll see you have already started a memory keepsake and I’m proud to say, I’m starting, we’re about three fours done.

Julianne: (29:17)
I’m starting book two. And it’s how she took her first step on the moon. I interviewed mothers all over the world and it’s the next step of this journey of collecting your memories and your advice. And so it’s a foundation piece to start thinking about what you want to, , encapsulate in, in the ground or a time, a time capsule of, , you know, when have you laughed at yourself. I think if I had that piece to, to read about my grandmother, I would hold that so close to my heart of when she was feeling that, you know, she couldn’t laugh at herself so it asks those questions in the book to journal right there in the book. And I hope that it will hand down to one mother to the next mother, to the next mother, , to kind of write down what they’re thinking or what they were grateful for at that time. , and I know in your podcast you do that a lot with gratitude and, and I think it’s just a big piece of the, the gratitude. We have been given a gift to be mothers

Bunny: (30:29)
Well, and I, I really like the idea of, of even, you know, because moms are so busy, , parents are, are so frequently overwhelmed and, and there aren’t enough hours in the day. So, so the idea, you know, when, when we talk about gratitude practice, we talk about, you know, you wake up in the morning and you say, think you think you thank you. But what you are suggesting is that you set aside a time once a month to talk about who you are in that moment and what you’re most grateful for. And it seems like that, I mean, it’s always important to write it down, but it seems like that’s a, a manageable piece, you know, pick a day, pick the last day of the month or the first day of the, I don’t, I don’t know how you’ve structured it. , or if it’s intentional, , in terms of the day that you choose. But I do like the idea of saying, I’m going to give this an hour of my time on the 28th of each month or on the, you know, the, the third, Sunday when my kids are finally taking a nap. , I do like the idea of, of, of not making it a daily practice in terms of you gotta write it all down every single day. Yeah. That’s, that’s hard work when have you gave kids.

Julianne: (31:45)

I will tell you this book came from total love of all of that. I called them scratch notes and I would write down things that would happen. And this book is accumulation of all those scratch notes. And, , people ask me, gosh, how did you write it in two months? I said, well, it’s been happening for 24 years. I mean, I’ve been collecting my scratch notes and it just kind of all came together with my profession and you know what I wanted to give as a gift to my kids of gratitude. Thank you for letting me be your mother. But I think that is the biggest thing I’ve learned is, you know, you may think something so minute, like I, I, to this day vividly, remember my son rode his bike to a friend’s on his own. And I remember I sat down and I wrote a scratch note like today I’m gratitude.

Julianne: (32:34)
He made it from point a to point B. That was it. And I was so grateful for, you know, he made it alive. He crossed a major street and, you know, he was in grade school and I thought, gosh, you know, he’s a big kid. Now it could be as simple as that, but I’m telling you, I have such joy when I go back to that scratch note. And I say, you know, he has become this glorious man that helps others, because he simply crosses the street sometimes and I just, you know, it’s, it, it, somehow it keeps building on itself, right from that.

Bunny: (33:11)
And tell me about the advice that you give moms about taking care of themselves. Because I, it seems that that’s something that, that as parents and I, and, and I don’t, and not just moms, but they do seem to, , get the bulk of some of the hard work about

Julianne: (33:29)
Self-care. I chapter on it, because I thought, you know, , I , I keep going back to, you know, with, with time wisdom is knowledge and my mother-in-law always kind of gave me the excuse, like, Hey, every so often hire that cleaning lady to make your house look glorious for at least five hours. After that, it may look like a bomb again, but I, I owe it to her. She kind of, she always had her nails done. She always like made a little extra appointment here or there for a facial or something like that. And I was like, gosh, and I don’t know if that’s because she was European and, you know, as an American, I was like, oh, we just don’t do that. But I really wrote that chapter, , to carve out and say to young moms, it’s okay. You know, it’s okay that you stop and you take a breath for yourself and you honor that this job is really hard.

Julianne: (34:24)
There’s no time off. There’s no bonus structure. There’s no pay, raise, you know, it is what it is. It is the hardest job out there. And that’s why I dedicated a whole chapter in telling you, , it’s something that I realized as my kids were teenagers, that it was a non-negotiable and in the beginning I did it a little bit, but it wasn’t something I was accustomed to. So I do think that it’s important. That’s why I wrote a whole chapter. And I ask you a very powerful question at the end of that chapter. And, , if anything, I hope that it just makes a young mother pause and say, what am I doing? How do I manage all of this? Because we don’t give self-assessment for all the good things we’re doing. and maybe we, yeah.

Bunny: (35:17)
Wow.

Julianne: (35:18)
That’s so true. And maybe we just need that, that question of how do you manage it? How do you manage it all ,

Bunny: (35:27)
Well, and the other, the other part is if you never take a moment off, then you never get to assess where you are. Right. I mean, you I mean, that’s true for anybody in business, but especially for, for parents, if you don’t, I mean, even if you don’t, you know, go to dinner and leave your kids at home, you don’t have time to talk about yeah. The things you’re that you’re doing well. And, , and that’s another thing that I think, , maybe couples tend to do, especially when they get along together, they talk about all the ways that they need to improve, improve, and improve. And I, and you talk about celebrating,

Julianne: (36:05)
Gotta celebrate, right? It’s if I could go back and I could change things about the way I raised my own three children is to digest a little bit of the failures and say it was okay. If, if you meet my three kids, it’s over and over and over again, depending on, you know, they’ve moved a million times, but yet they are very personable and they love to talk to people and take the time to sit and look them in the eye and, and find out what makes them tick. And that is my biggest. Like, it doesn’t matter if this person’s 99 or if it’s a 10-year-old, I’ve taught them that people matter. And I think if are able to manage it and see the result, if you could like fast forward your kids till if they’re four and they’re now 24, and you can envision what that han is gonna look like, it will remind you that they are gonna get there. They’re not gonna be wearing diapers and they’re not gonna be doing all the things that you’re like, he’ll never

Bunny: (37:12)
But well, I think, I think that’s important advice for life though. You gotta, you gotta unplug and, take time to say, you know, it wasn’t perfect, but yeah. How did we get A lot of that?

Julianne: (37:33)
Right. And I, and I look at young moms right now and, I ha I had a breakfast with one of my clients this morning and she’s expecting one and it’s, it’s a lot of anxiety. And I remember that. And so that’s where I, I push and I say, just write it down, cuz that also takes out some of the, the fear, the fear factor is, okay, I’ve written something down and you’ll look at that a month from now. And you’ll say, okay, I, I don’t believe that anymore, but that got me to where I am now. So what am I gonna do now to kind of look at, from a month from now? So it’s able to digest all of this big, enormous task of parenting your child in little bite size pieces.

Bunny: (38:20)
You know, I had a, a cousin that I really admire, who said to me before I had kids, she, I said, how do you have such great kids? And she said, you know, bunny, I think my only job I’ve always thought my only job is to raise kids that I’m gonna like as adults. And so that’s, that is, that was her intent all the time was, you know, I wouldn’t want an adult to, to behave in this matter. So I’ve gotta be intentional about teaching my children, not to behave in this matter. And I, and I took that to heart and, and so other, so talk real. I, I know we don’t have a lot of time to talk, but I just, so when you talk about parenting with intention, we’ve kind of gone around and around it. But, but say, you know, like if you were gonna give three strong pieces of advice to the mother of a six year old today, what, what would you say what’s the best

Julianne: (39:14)
Way to talk? Well, you nailed it on the head with your cousin’s advice is have that simple mission statement. Every company is like that. We have a mission statement. So it’s, I want to have a child that I like as an adult. That’s first have your mission statement, have your purpose. Yeah. So simple. So simple. The second one is have, have a safety zone group in your house. Doesn’t matter what the topic is say here. This is where you get your answers. This is where you get your information. And if I don’t know, we’re gonna investigate it together. We’re gonna acknowledge this power. We’re gonna get it together. And we’re gonna understand it and, and know that,

Bunny: (39:52)
Wait, wait, so give an example. I mean, do you actually like sit with your kids and say, this is the safety zone or is it I, from the very sort of implied

Julianne: (40:02)
That no topic was untouchable drugs, alcohol, , sex, anything. I brought it up and it started at the dinner table and my husband was like, oh my gosh. And it started young. my husband, I think had some more like swallow moments than my kids did. , but the plan worked when one time and I write a story about that in this book is my daughter came home and she did not wanna talk to me. And she said, I have a safety zone question. And I was like, oh my gosh, you know, this is it. This is my moment, my mom moment. And she’s like, it’s not you mom. I wanna talk to my brother. And I was like, whoa. And I, I was nosy. I wanted to know what was going on. But she heard about masturbation in school had no clue what it was, knew that it involved male parts and wanted to talk to him about what that was, what it felt like, why.

Julianne: (40:55)
And she’s like, well, you don’t have it, mom. So I wanna talk to him. I wanna know what he’s thinking about this and my son and I, again, I may get, I make it a fun story, but my son came into the kitchen and he is like, great safety zone, mom, you know, thanks. I’m a teenage boy and , he prepared a very large chocolate milk in that moment. And he’s like, just let me enjoy my chocolate milk. I’m a puberty child right now. And I’m or boy. And I and said, and I need a chocolate milk, but that’s the power of a safety zone. It, it, it allowed my daughter to talk about something uncomfortable with one of the members of the safety zone and discuss it and say, what is this? Boys are talking about it. I want the information, but I don’t wanna talk to you, mom. I wanna talk to my brother. And that was like my shiny moment. I was like gold star. I just won the Olympics. They, they went to each other, you know, ,

Bunny: (41:49)
I love that. But then I love that.

Julianne: (41:52)
My biggest Thing, is my third piece is that this is an opportunity to love and to develop the thinkers and doers of the next generation, remind yourself of that. You could have a Nobel prize winner in your home. If we, if we asse they have that position from day one or the best educator in the world or the next activist in the world, if you asse that that is the person living in your home right now, what grace do, you have to say, okay, they made a mistake, but this could be the next generation of something doer or thinker of, of mankind. And I guarantee you, you’ll kind of look at your children and say, whoa, I’ve been given amazing job. I’m a parent to this child. , and I think that’s a mindset reframe.

Bunny: (42:51)
Wow. And just to go along with the theme of this podcast, it’s you always wanna let them know that you’re grateful for them. I mean, it’s what a gift, what a gift it is. It

Julianne: (43:04)
Is to get jewelry’s children. I celebrate that even more.

Bunny: (43:08)
It’s an endless gift. Yeah. Yeah. It’s, it’s an endless gift, but it’s a,

Julianne: (43:13)
Yeah. As they grow older, it’s, it’s something that’s humbling to me that as a parent, I survived, you know, you survive these things and you think, oh God, I’m never gonna get sleep again in my life. I’m never gonna, I’m never gonna have my own body where I get to go to the bathroom by myself. Right. You, you think that, but you do survive. And, , I don’t know. It is, it is the only piece of worth it in the end. I mean, I lo I’ve lost two parents and I; I encourage your listeners that as far as that grateful piece is a blink of an eye. Those parents can be gone and this is what I have left to impart on them or this moment or these memories or what I have left. And, and I think that just puts it to a simpleness that it’s a gift.

Bunny: (44:15)
It is, it really is. Well, Julian, it’s been such a gift to have you here. And I wanna remind everybody again, tell us the name of you book.

Julianne: (44:21)
How a Mother Took Her First Step on the Moon

Bunny: (44:28)
And they can find it at, we’ll have a link to your website and to where they can find the book. And I can’t wait to see the next one. Yes. And, let’s talk again. This has been so much fun me.

Julianne:

Thank you Bunny.

Bunny:

You’re very welcome.

Speaker 3: (44:46)
That’s all we’ve got today. Friends. I wanna thank you for joining the Lifesaving Gratitude podcast with your host Bunny Terry that’s me and my producer and assistant Johanna Medina. We feel like we’re in the business of sharing the stories that save us, and we hope you’ll share as well by letting your friends and family know about the podcast follow and like us wherever you listed. And please take the time to leave a review, whether it’s a stellar comment or a suggestion, we are open to suggestions all the time. Also follow us on Instagram at lifesaving gratitude pod. You can also follow me personally at BunnyTerrySantaFe. You can sign up at my website at bunnyterry.com to receive weekly emails about how to become the ultimate gratitude nerd. Thanks. So much for checking in.

Bunny: Hi everyone. This is Bunny with the Lifesaving Gratitude podcast. Just in case you don’t know me, I am a stage four colon cancer survivor and the author of Lifesaving Gratitude, which is a book about how gratitude helped me kick cancer’s ass. 

Today we’re going to talk to a special guest about how marketing and marketers can use gratitude to create business and connections with clients and also for themselves to create a really positive way to do their job. But first, I just want to thank you for being here and ask that you download the podcast if you’d like. And certainly subscribe wherever you listen to other podcasts. But enough about me and enough about the podcast. 

I want to introduce you to my special guest, who’s also a friend. Craig Cunningham is currently a realtor with Keller Williams, Santa Fe. And that’s how I met him. However, this is a recent career for him and he was, and correct me if I mispronounce the word, but you were a hotelier. Is that the way to say that?

Craig: Yes. 

Bunny: Yes. He’s spent 30 years in corporate sales and marketing. He’s traveled extensively. I’m going to let him tell you all the places that he’s been to, but he is the founder and principal of Cunningham + Colleagues marketing consultants. He was in the past the VP of marketing and quality for Seaport Hotels and World Centers and the VP of marketing for Core North America. So welcome Craig Cunningham.

Craig: Thanks so much for having me on your podcast.

Bunny: I’m excited. I know you have some great tips for all of our listeners. When I think about these podcasts, I always think about the people that are going to want the information we’re offering. I mean, we’re here to help people and we’re here to figure out how gratitude can make everyone’s life not just easier and simpler, but also fuller. So why don’t you start, Greg? Just tell us a little bit about yourself. Tell us how in the world you ended up in this completely different career? And yet the truth is we’re still just marketers first and realtors, second. Tell me a little bit about yourself. Tell our listeners.

Craig: Yeah. So, as you said, I’ve been in marketing and sales for more than 30 years. I actually started off with an advertising and PR agency and then had the good fortune to be hired by my hotel client at the time, Wyndham hotels. At that time it was a North American chain and it’s now international. 

But from then on, I was in the hotel business. It’s definitely a career where if you are not focused on client service and the whole concept of gratitude, you’re not going to be successful. I always thought of our job as just surprising and delighting our guests and making them feel like they chose the right hotel to be with. And so it was always about waking up every day and saying, “What can I do to make somebody’s day and to give them a great experience?” And, of course, to do this you have to be grateful because they opted to choose your hotel over the million other choices that they had. 

So when I retired from the hotel business two years ago, I was trying to figure out what else I wanted to do with my life. I started doing more volunteering. I volunteer with Kitchen Angels here in Santa Fe to deliver meals to people who are not able to leave their homes. But I also started thinking of whether I wanted to do something else from a professional standpoint and the real estate business seemed like a natural extension, because it’s all about client service. You have to figure out ways to make people feel like they’ve made the right choice in working with you. So it’s all about being grateful every day and figuring out what can I do to help them today. How else can I extend what I’m doing for them in a way that they will appreciate and know that I appreciate them. So that’s what it’s really all about, because of course they could work with a million other other people

Bunny: Right. And let’s talk for just a second. Don’t you think that marketing has changed over the 30 years that you’ve been doing this? I mean, it seems to me that when we were kids, which was back before the crust cooled, we were sort of marketed at. Just talk for a minute about how marketing is different now than it was 10 years ago or 30 years ago.

Craig: It’s funny, because I was going to say the exact same thing. Back in the day, you were running a TV ad or a radio spot or a print ad and it was passive in that you just presented the information, unless you were direct sales. But really with the advent of so much digital media, you are instantly able to forge a relationship with customers through social media, through Facebook, Instagram, where you’re having a dialogue with them from the very beginning. This allows you to work in a much more personal way and to be able to find out much more quickly how you can serve those people. 

So I think it’s changed completely. Before you just sort of put it out there into the ether and hope that something worked, and now you’re able to engage. And I’ve found that so much in real estate where I’m getting emails from folks and then it evolves from the email into a phone call or a zoom call or something like that instantly. I think that’s so much better for both people. Especially for somebody like me who wants to find ways to engage with people and to be of service to them, it makes it a lot easier and more rewarding.

Bunny: I just think about the ways that I connect with my clients. It’s as if you’re somehow conveying to those people that you’re grateful that they showed up.

Craig: Yeah, exactly. I mean, my whole thought is that it’s not a transaction, it’s a relationship. And that relationship can be multifaceted. Once you’ve sold them a house or sold their house, I like to think that we’ve formed a friendship and a bond and that relationship is going to continue. And honestly, I don’t even care if I ever get another piece of business for them. Now think of them as friends. I want to have them to my house for dinner or go have coffee or something like that. 

I think that kind of thing that makes a difference for people in wanting to work with me.  It’s coming from a position of wanting to be of service to them and wanting to make them happy and finding the right solution for them. I’m working with some first-time-buyers right now and I kind of feel like they’re my kids. It’s about, okay, how can I really help them with this? And they’re grateful for the counsel I’m able to give to them, and I’m grateful for the opportunity to work with them. So it’s very rewarding. I think if you approach business relationships in the same way as you would with your friends, it’s a win-win situation for everybody.

Bunny: Well, talking about those first-time home buyers, I mean, that’s one of my favorite deals. You never make the most money from those transactions, but I’m so grateful to be reminded that we are providing the American dream when we’re selling real estate. Yeah. It’s amazing. It’s my favorite experience.

Craig: Yeah. I mean, for somebody to have their first home and to be excited about how they’re going to decorate it and what they’re going to do. And with this young couple, seeing them excited when they see a house brings out all my empathy and makes me want to really go the extra mile for them to make sure they find the right house at the right price for them. And then I just never want to stop. So then it’s like, “Okay, now I’m going to find this person for you to do the plumbing, and I’m going to find this person, etc, and I’ll be with you with you  to help explain things.” I just want to really continue to be of service.

Bunny: I talk a lot, especially on my blog, about Judy Camp, who was one of my first real estate mentors. She was a great friend and Linda Gammons partner for a long time before she passed away. But Judy Camp always says, “If you come from contribution, you can’t help but be successful.”

Craig: Yeah. I mean, just as I was saying, you can’t think of it as a transaction. I think, coming from contribution, how can I help you? How can I make this a better experience? How can I make this work? Because, especially in a real estate transaction, it can be stressful. It’s the biggest financial transaction for the majority of us. So how do you take the burden and the pressure away from them and sort of guide them through the process? I just think the main thing is that it’s much more fun, whether you’re doing volunteer work or in business, to wake up every day and figure out how I could make it fun for somebody else. Because then it’s fun for you and it gets you excited and passionate about what you’re doing.

Bunny: Well, it sounds like our big “why’s” are really similar. I certainly don’t want to put any words in your mouth, but it sounds like your big “why” is just to make the life of the people you come in contact with better.

Craig: Yeah. Of course making money is nice, but there are lots of ways to make money. It’s more about whether you are getting energy from it. And I think you really get energy when you’re working with someone and trying to figure out how you can help them, how you can make their day better, how you can make the service that you’re providing better. And also just doing things that saying, “What about if I do X, Y, Z?” and they’re  like, “Oh, you’ll do that for me?” And I’m like, “Of course.”

I have another set of clients where the transaction was fairly complicated and we were looking at lots of properties. Coming from a corporate background, I love to do spreadsheets and PowerPoint presentations—things like that. And so after about the third thing we had to do, they’re like, “Oh, how are we going to organize all these bids?”  And then one of the guys said to the other guy, “Well, Craig’s going to do a spreadsheet for us. He’s probably already got it done.” So it’s that kind of thing where you’re looking for ways to make their experience better.

Bunny: So this is always a funny question for me to ask, because I have such a loose gratitude practice other than just waking up in the morning and saying, “thank you, thank you, thank you,” and then writing things down, but do you have a practice that you follow that helps you both in your business and your personal life?

Craig: Well, since I came into real estate with Keller Williams, which focuses a lot on being servant leaders and helping people, I’ve gotten into the habit of writing three things I’m grateful for that day. It could be that it’s a beautiful day or a dog or my partner or the opportunity to help somebody or the coffee’s really good that day, but waking up and appreciating what you have in your life is a good way to get in a good mindset for the rest of it.

Bunny: Oh, absolutely. Something I always say is that we kind of rewire our brains. We do. We create new neural pathways every time we say that we’re grateful. So in terms of nuts and bolts, is there a way that you let your clients know? I mean, I find that there are a lot of young people, young entrepreneurs or people who are new to business, who forget how to tell their clients how they’re grateful for them, even if it’s a line in an email. Do you have something that you do specifically over and over?

Craig: I think for me, it’s maybe more in the actions. I think of “This is really going to be helpful if I do this or if I provide this information.” I think it’s always in my voice and the way that I write. I try to always communicate openly and in a friendly and conversational manner. But then I also think “It would be really cool and really helpful if I did X , Y , Z.” I created a whole PowerPoint just on the neighborhoods in Santa Fe, because if you’re out of town it gets confusing. And that came out of a client saying, “Well, I don’t really know the neighborhoods.” And I thought that this would be a great tool for them. So I created it and then I was able to use it with others. 

So I think for me, maybe it’s sort of on the fly. I used to say in the hotel hotel business, “How can I make this a wow experience?” Because the other way to think about it is that every relationship is with people. When you’re in a service business you’re really in the business of creating memories. You can create good memories or you can create bad memory and it’s much more fun to create good memories.

Bunny: And that just comes from a spirit of generosity. I mean, you obviously want this to be the best real estate experience they’ve ever had.

Craig: Right. Right. I’m very grateful for the people that have helped me along the way. I’ve been very fortunate in my career to always work for people who were concerned about my career development and my personal development and became dear friends. And I’ve had a couple of bosses that have hired me twice in two different jobs. So I’m always grateful for the things that other people have done for me. 

So then I want to pay it forward. When I came to Keller Williams and I was introduced to the team here, there was so much openness and willingness to share and help and support. It has been fantastic. What strikes me the most is how grateful I am for what other people have done for me. And how do I pay that back?

Bunny: I mean, this is not a podcast to plug Keller Williams. It’s really more to talk about mindset, but the place where I learned it was sitting in that training room and learning that my mindset was the secret sauce. I mean, that’s the success piece, right?

Craig: Yeah, exactly. It’s not just about production and everything. It’s about weight and having a sense of gratitude and contribution and a sense of abundance. And I don’t mean that in a monetary way. It could be abundance in your health or your friends or all of that kind of stuff. And I think back to you. Your experience with cancer was far worse than mine, but I did have prostate cancer about nine years ago. Everyone I worked with during that entire time when I was going for radiation every day for 10 weeks was so supportive. And then on the last day of radiation, there was this very important meeting, and everyone knew it was my last day.My whole team had a celebration for me on my last day. That was turning something that was obviously a challenging situation into something where I knew they really cared about me and supported me.

Bunny: Wow. I’m interested to hear how your mindset was in the middle of that? 

Craig: I’m just by nature, an optimistic person. So even though it was scary, I felt like I was in good hands from a medical standpoint and I just felt like I was gonna beat it. I had done the education that I needed to and then it was really about having a positive mindset. 

This is probably too much information, but I’ll say it anyway. You’re doing the radiation stripped down to your boxer shorts. And so I jokingly put this Facebook thing about the fact that I needed a new pair of boxer shorts for every day. And people started sending me underwear—different pairs of boxer shorts for every day. So while I was sitting there in the big machine, where you’re sort of in there and it’s buzzing and scanning and all that kind of stuff, it got to be kind of a joke with the techs:  “Oh , what’s he going to be wearing today?”

Bunny: I love that.

Craig: That was a way to keep my spirits up. And also during that process, I really learned how to be very focused. I was in a waiting room with people that were going through, frankly, worse things than prostate cancer. Don’t get me wrong, prostate cancer is pretty serious. It is. People die from it. But I was seeing so many other people that were having a much more challenging time than I was. And we became a family. We all bonded together during that process, because we were all waiting, sometimes for an hour. So it’s things like that. And also things like the kitchen angels service, where it helps reboot you every day for how grateful you should be in your own life and grateful for the opportunity to help other people.

Bunny: Right. There are tons of people who do get what a gift it is. People who don’t even have a specific gratitude practice, but at least an attitude every day that you’re going to figure out something. I just wrote a blog post on limiting beliefs and one of the things that I wanted to convey is that we get to choose every single moment how we view the world. And maybe for somebody out there who’s brand new in business or who’s starting a new business. I just read a statistic that said that the entrepreneur demographics are changing. And now like 48% of new entrepreneurs are over 50. So hooray for the old people! 

But I know that there are people out there right now who are thinking, “Well, I’m not any good at marketing. I’m not any good at that piece of it. I can sell stuff, but I’m not good at the marketing stuff.” I’ve got to tell you, I’m married to a guy who doesn’t believe in self promotion because he came from a generation when you played down your assets, instead of being grateful for them and talking about them. So I’d love to hear what you have to say to somebody who has that limiting belief that they can’t market. And they can’t promote themselves.

Craig: You know, we could all market ourselves, and we do it every day in our interactions.  Whether we think of it as marketing or not, we’re marketing ourselves all day long in how we react and treat other people. The thought I had as you were talking about your husband thinking self-promotion sounds like a dirty word is that it doesn’t have to be you talking  about “me, me, me” and “I did this million dollars in revenue.” This is kind of a turnoff in some ways, because you’re talking about yourself. But if you’re talking about how you can help somebody else and how you can provide a good experience for them with your information and knowledge, you’re not talking about yourself in that context. You’re talking about how you can be of service. I think that’s a much easier way for a lot of people from a generation where we weren’t really supposed to be talking about ourselves.

Bunny: Well, it was pre-social media. Our face wasn’t out there. We just weren’t trained to tell people, “Here’s the reason you should hire me instead of the other person.”

Craig: Yeah, exactly. I mean, now we’re all our own brands on social media. But I think that rather than saying to somebody, “Here’s why you should hire me versus somebody else,” you should just talk about how you can be of service in what you do in an authentic way. Then people are more likely to want to work with you, because you’re radiating a sense of positivity and an interest in them. And they’re not thinking that you just look at them as a transaction and then you’re onto the next person.

Bunny: I frequently use with my marketing coaching clients the example of a dinner party. If you went into a dinner party (and this is for people who are just beginning in whatever business they’re in, especially if they’re self-employed), you wouldn’t simply walk in, take your coat off and say, “Hey, I’m selling something, come and talk to me.” Right? I mean, that’s what you don’t want to do with marketing. You want to start by building a relationship. Can you talk a little bit about that? 

Craig: I think it goes all the way back to Dale Carnegie’s How to Win Friends and Influence People. People do like to talk about themselves. And so the first thing is you should be listening. That was one of the first things I learned in marketing client service. You need to ask questions and learn from your clients. Focus on what they need, as opposed to talking about yourself. You really want to establish a dialogue with them about their wants and needs and hopes and fears and everything else. Then you can talk about how you can address them. But nobody wants to go in and all of a sudden have you sit down and say, “Here’s my PowerPoint about me and what I’ve done.” It should be more of establishing, from the very beginning, a relationship of openness with folks. Then, after hearing from them, you can say “Well, here’s how I think I can you and here are some ideas that I have that I could share with you.” So I think a key thing is really listening from the very beginning.

Bunny: I even found that to be helpful when I used to first go on listing appointments. I was so nervous that I would sit down and I would immediately try to book an appointment. You know, if you’re not in real estate, a listing appointment is just like sitting down with a prospective customer. I would be so nervous in the beginning and really coming from a place of scarcity where I thought, “If I don’t get this listing, I’m not sure I can pay the rent next month.” And if you’re coming from a place of scarcity, you’re likely to self-sabotage. But that’s such good advice because things changed when I finally learned how to sit back and listen: “I’m here to help you. Tell me what it is that you need. Talk to me.” It’s so powerful to give a client time to talk to you. And I think people forget to do that, right?

Craig: Yeah. And I think sometimes we do it because we’re afraid. What I’ve learned so much over the years in business working with people is that people are terrified of silence, so they will immediately start talking. If there’s a second of silence, you jump in and start babbling. Lord knows I do it. But if you just let somebody talk and let it sort of sit there for a second and not just try to be filling in all the time. It drives me crazy when people are doing that. It’s much better if you can have the client talk and then ask some more questions and then be warm and reflective about it. Back to the Dale Carnegie thing, I think one of his first points was if you’re at the dinner party, ask people about themselves. Most people do like to talk about themselves. So ask them and don’t just start talking about yourself. 

Bunny: I think that even people who would say, “I don’t like to talk about myself,” really do want somebody to ask them and listen to them.

Craig: Yeah. And it’s not just asking them to go on and on. It’s more meaningful questions about, for example, why they decided to move here. Just those kinds of questions that get them thinking. Growing up in materialistic Dallas, the joke was that the questions at a party were like, “Where do you live? What do you do? What do you drive?” And so it’s not questions like that. It’s asking them more about their life experience,

Bunny: You just brought me to another completely different point, which is for any realtors out there listening: I think it’s really important to convey to your clients how grateful you are for where you live. I mean, if our lifestyle is such a selling point, don’t you think you should share that?

Craig: Oh, yeah, exactly. I mean, living in Santa Fe there’s so much beauty. I’m looking out my window right now at the beautiful blue sky. When I leave my house in the morning and I see the mountains, and then when I’m coming home at night and the sun is setting over the mountains and I see all the different colors and everything, it’s just breathtaking. It’s great to live in such a great and wonderful environment and in a place that is very spiritual, going back with the native Americans—respect for the earth and nature and all of those things—I think it does help center us more than a lot of other places.

Bunny: How do you convey that to your clients? I know you’re doing something really cool online that’s different from some other realtors.

Craig: Well, I’m not just posting on my Facebook page,” Hey, I just sold this house or just sold that house.” Well, that’s great. But I’m more talking about new experiences in Santa Fe: new restaurants, or a new place to go hiking, or something exciting that’s happening at one of the museums or things like that—enthusiastically talking about the experience of living in Santa Fe. And if down the road, by the way, you’re looking at this stuff and you decide you want to buy a house here, I would love to help you. But it’s more about conveying the reason why we all want to live here

Bunny: And tell us about your blog, because I think it’s amazing.

Craig: So I created this blog, which is called Santa Fe Scenes. It’s that same kind of thing where it’s just talking about having fun in Santa Fe. One of the things was, you know, we’ve got the old Santa Fe trail and we’ve got the old Pincus trail, but did you know that we had a Margarita trail and a Chocolate trail? Stuff like that. Just being whimsical about it and talking about some of the things are unique about the city and sharing my own passion for Santa Fe. I was very fortunate to be able to do a lot of international travel for my job. I was grateful for the opportunity that I was given to see places that I wouldn’t have seen otherwise from Bogota to Sao Paulo and Rio de Janeiro and Beijing and places like that. So I’ve always been enthusiastic about travel and now living in such a beautiful place like Santa Fe, I want to share that enthusiasm with people.

Bunny: And you’re getting some good feedback on that I bet, right?

Craig: Yes, I am. I’m getting good feedback on it. It’s been a wonderful thing to reconnect with friends who are saying, “Good for you, you old dog! You’re back out there trying something new.” Because whenever someone says, “Oh, you’re a new realtor,” I say, “Well, I’m an old new realtor. I’m 61 and I’m starting this for the first time.” But it’s been great from that perspective and the support that you get from your friends. Then people are saying, “Oh, well, I know somebody who might be interested in sending you that information.” I think that’s one of the positive things that social media has done where we’ve been able to reconnect with so many people that we might have completely lost touch with.

Bunny: Oh yeah. I did a post not very long ago about how grateful I was, and it was in the middle of all the fear over Facebook and Twitter. And I just said that it’s such a great platform for reconnecting with cousins that I haven’t seen since I was six. I mean, I just turned 60. I’m an old dog and this is a new trick for me, but I think that if you use it the right way, it’s a real gift. I also think there are so many realtors, like you said, who just post either pictures of houses that they have listed or their accomplishments. And I think they’re really missing an opportunity.

Craig: Yeah. Because then you’re just talking at someone. You’re not sharing information and excitement about things with them. People don’t want to look at that stuff. They want to look at things like the fact that there are like six great chocolate tiers in Santa Fe. And then the next time I’m in town, I want to go to each one of them. Or discovering an amazing new hiking trail or a beautiful image of a shop window or a piece of art or something like that. 

Bunny: Yeah, it’s so much better than “I just listed this house at 123 main street. Don’t you wish you owned it?” Exactly.

Craig: Exactly. I think more people would react to it. I’d really like to have some of that green chili chocolate over at The Chocolate Smith or whatever. It’s much more interesting than a picture of a kitchen that has granite countertops. Oh my goodness.

Bunny: And, you know, Craig, I found that people will call me and they’ll say, “Well, I’ve been following you on Facebook for two years. And I feel like you’re my best friend. I think you’d be the right person to show me around and help me find a house.” And I bet that’s happening to you too.

Craig: Yeah, exactly. It’s funny, you mentioned that. One of the people I’ve been mentoring told me a story about how she posted a lovely picture of herself and then somebody called her and said, “I feel like I already know you because you just look like a nice person and I feel like I can trust you.” I think also that it’s our eyes and our smile and everything that conveys so much of what you’re talking about. If you have a spirit of gratitude and service and a sense of abundance, not scarcity, it shows in your face, your eyes, your smile, and your whole persona.

Bunny: Well, we’re going to have to wrap up here in a minute, but I would love to hear if you have just three great tips that you would give to somebody who feels kind of stuck in their marketing. It could be what you’ve learned in 30 years or in the last three days, whatever it is.

Craig: I think one is changing your question from “How do I market myself?” to “What can I do for this client?” or “What can I do that’s going to excite the people? How can I make them feel appreciated and valued?” And this can work in cases where you’re actually working one-on-one with a client or cases where you’re trying to figure out how to promote what you’re doing. How do I find ways to surprise and delight people? So I like to do that with social media buys, where you come up with quirky, little things to talk about that are authentically Santa Fe or a funny picture of my dog or something like that. You want to put a smile on people’s faces. And social media gives us so many opportunities to be able to do that in ways that we couldn’t before. So the main thing at the end of it is to put your client first, and then I think everything else will come from there.

Bunny: You’re absolutely right. I think as long as your passion is helping people, then success is just a natural by-product of that.

Craig: Exactly. People feel that energy and then they want to tell their friends about you.

Bunny: What I’ve found is that people want to be able to trust somebody, especially in this business where they’re making possibly the biggest purchase of their life.

Craig: Right? I’m thinking back to these younger clients. We were touring houses, and they were interested in one particular house and I was like, “No, I’m not going to let you buy this. This is not the right move.” And I think all of a sudden they’re like, “Wow, he really cares. He’s not just thinking ‘Tick tock, tick tock. We’ve seen three houses.’” This is not House Hunters International where there are the three properties and you have to buy one. So again, it’s not a transaction. It’s a journey. It’s a relationship.

Bunny: I think that’s the most important tip for somebody to take away. Whether you’re selling widgets or earrings or house cars or houses, this is not a transaction. It’s a relationship. We want people to trust you and come back over and over. I don’t know how you can love your job if you’re not doing it the way we’re doing it.

Craig: Yeah, exactly. And have fun with it. We get to meet interesting people all day long. We get to see things. We get to use our own creativity to express ourselves. I know there are people that are in jobs that don’t have that. But I also read things about  the janitor in an elementary school who takes real pride in what they do, and they are going to do the best job that they possibly can. So I think in almost everything, you can come at it with a mindset of “How can I make this a great experience for me and for others?”

Bunny: That’s great stuff. Tell us where people can find you and where they can find your blog.

Craig: Well, probably the most fun thing I’m doing is the Santa Fe Scenes blog. 

Bunny: Okay. And we’ll share that on the information page for the podcast. And then, of course, if people want to buy a house from you, they can find you through there?

Craig: Yeah. All my information is on there. So one stop shop.

Bunny: Craig, I’m so excited that you were here. This was fun. I think we could do it again.

Craig: Yeah. Yeah.

Bunny: Because I think this is the place where people get stuck. People who are self-employed get stuck in this part. And so I think there’s a lot of stuff that we can talk about.  But I’m of course really grateful that you agreed to talk with us.

Craig: Oh, thanks. It’s been a lot of fun. I appreciate it. 

Bunny: And to everybody else, thanks for being here. This is once again, the Lifesaving Gratitude podcast. I’m Bunny Terry. You are welcome to go to my website if you’d like to learn more about me and about buying my book, which is all about gratitude and how gratitude helped me kick stage four cancer’s ass. And we’d love to have you follow us and subscribe on spot Spotify, Apple, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Thanks so much, Craig.

Craig: Thank you. Next time.