Episode Transcript

Bunny : (00:00)
Hi there. I’m Bunny Terry, and you’re listening to the I Love New Mexico podcast. Whether you’re a native new Mexican, who’s lived here for your entire life, or you’re just considering a visit, this episode is for you. Join us as we share a lot of New Mexico stories, talk about all things New Mexico, and include topics like what’s magical here, where you ought to visit, what’s happening, and the things you absolutely cannot miss in the land of Enchantment. We’re excited that you’re here, and we can’t wait to show you what an amazing place New Mexico is, because let’s face it, I love New Mexico. We have a special guest today on the I Love New Mexico podcast, and, um, I’m excited to introduce all of you to Owen Lipstein, who is along with John Miller, uh, founder of Santa Fe Magazine. Um, he’s also, um, you know, a, a, a celebrity of the magazine world. Um, I’m pretty excited to get to talk to you, Owen, because you’ve got along list of accolades and you’ve worked for a long list of very recognizable magazines like American Health and Mother Earth News. Um, you have this for, for people who haven’t read or seen Santa Fe Magazine. I just wanna reiterate something that I say all the time on this podcast is that the reason we started telling these stories is because I think that stories save us in a way if we, if we know our story, and if we can tell our story, then, um, I just, I think it’s a better world, and I’m not sure I can articulate why, but, oh, and I wanna know, um, first of all, who you are and, and where the concept for Santa Fe Magazine came from, because it’s different from other magazines, and that’s what I love about it.

Owen: (02:08)
Okay, well, thank you. In terms of answering the question, who I am, I’m still trying to figure that one out. But I, in terms of, would you like to know about the genesis of Santa Fe Magazine?

Bunny : (02:29)
Absolutely. That’s, that’s what I wanna know about, because I’m curious whether it was a glass of wine or a lo, you know, months and years of thinking about this concept. Where’d it come from?

Owen: (02:38)
Well, it, I would say it took about 25 years and about two months, both at the same time. I had, um, recently got, uh, uh, come to Santa Fe. This is about seven, seven and a half years ago. My wife and I were having a baby, actually, uh, she was having the baby. I had a great deal to do with it. Um, but I found myself in Santa Fe and I lived in the east all my life, um, on the Hudson, Hudson River, and also in Manhattan. And I found myself just walking around rather unemployed for the first time in years and meeting the most extraordinary people. And I would come back and, uh, report that I just met this person and met that person. My, you know, my daughter at the time was six months old, and I was so, uh, blatantly enthusiastic and appallingly almost sentimentally enthusiastic about everything I saw. My Santa Fe family used to call me, uh, Owen Bluesky, and it was not a compliment. Um, I also realized that my daughter didn’t quite believe that, uh, that, uh, I had a career in publishing that had had some success. She would look at me with slanted eyes, as if to say, uh, yes, daddy. And, um, I also had met a partner, uh, who had a similar parallel, uh, magazine experience. And together we had this idea of a, of a, of a hometown magazine that would, um, as an individually talk to people, uh, try to understand their stories and narratives, and at the same time, try to do a story of the city that we, John and I had, um, more or less fallen in love with slowly and all at once. So, of course, we tried to talk each other out of doing this magazine as any rational person, uh, would do in this environment. And, in the end, he had an unsuccessful retirement. And, uh, in the end, I was unable to talk myself out of this, uh, idea, which seemed to me, um, uh, uh, quite unusual. I I should say that I had spent 15 years before this doing something called Shakespeare in the Hudson, where I was producing and directing and working on, uh, on 90 acres of Hudson River, uh, real estate, doing performances in open air. And I made a fetish of not reading the magazines. At that time, I just concentrated on dead people, usually three or 400 years. So I, I had, missed, if you will, the, the true extinction, uh, near extinction of, um, of the men national magazines, such as what I used to work on. And so I had to some extent a fresh attitude, but I knew the business well enough to know what, what, what rules I had to play with, and ones I could break. And, you could say we both had sort of a groundless courage and optimism. And there we went. John had come up with a similar idea or had been working on this sort of thing, um, when we met and we just over margaritas. It wasn’t wine, we just decided what the hell. And here we are.

Bunny : (06:11)
And here you are. I have the original, um, I have, um, I have number one. Thank you. I mean, I have them all, but I have number one in front of me, and I’m trying, I was looking at it, trying to, I honestly cannot figure what’s, what was the first publication date? I can’t.

Owen: (06:32)
It was fall two years ago.

Bunny : (06:36)
So, so sort of still in the middle of trying to figure out the pandemic and, um, e everybody, um, still not quite sure about living close together, but, um, you, you have this, um, manifesto that, I mean, that’s what I call it. I don’t know what you call it. Um, what we do in the beginning, in the front of the magazine that I, I, I like what you do, but I want you to tell folks, let’s just assume somebody who has never picked up the magazine is listening. What? Tell ’em what you don’t do. I think that’s a good way to frame what you do.

Owen: (07:14)
Well, um, I’m going to have to get that in front of me, so bear with me. Um, okay. Um, and, and you’re welcome to lemme just say, but you know, in doing this, uh, we did what we called a mission statement for, um, a few reasons. Some of it obvious and some of it not. Um, we wanted to serve, notice, if you will, um, that we were a different kind of magazine and we, we, we, um, we wanted to, uh, I mean, the difficult thing about Here we go. I will find it. Typical thing about editing a magazine or starting a magazine like this, I is not only what you put in, but what you’ll leave out. And, and we want to, uh, we clear what we’re gonna do and what we’re not gonna do because we, we, there’s so much to do. And by definition, by definition, you’re, uh, you’re, you know, you’re not being complete. I’m gonna read from it such as it is, because I think it’s helpful. And, uh, and it it’s like this, what we do, we talk to Santa Fe poets, outlaws artists, mystics, entrepreneurs, healers, builders, saints, sinners, lovers, and lunatics with their words. We capture the love, the humor, the fear, the sublimity, the originality of every moment we capture what we call life in Santa Fe. If we do our job right, we will ask some good questions. We will listen with respect, but we will ask questions that may not be what the subject inspector even want. If we do our job right, we will produce a chronicle with the most exciting city we know, a city always becoming, and I should say, we add what we won’t do. We will not be a primer on 25 things to do in Santa Fe. We will not be your guide to the 18 hips places or to go. We will not do a roundup of the best boot stores in town. Actually, we will not review anything. We will not puff up, we will not put down, we will not be pious. We’ll be more interested in who people are than what they do, which doesn’t mean we’re not interested in accomplishments, but more so in how they make people who they are. Finally, we will not be boring and predictable because of the people of the city. At least the ones we’re gonna talk to are definitely not that. Now, that’s a pretty, um, bold mission statement. And, uh, we did it for the people we hope to interest, and the people we, we intended to, um, put off right in the beginning. And we, and we did it because we wanted to keep ourselves honest. We wanted to always hold ourselves, and we printed with every issue to the standard, that thing that made us start the magazine in, uh, in, in the beginning. I think an easy thing to do if you start something or found something, is to forget that thing that got you started in the first place. That combination of confidence and doubt and, and, um, and, and, uh, uh, a gut feeling and, and a a maybe. And, um, and, and all the high mindedness that everyone starts anything with and, um, and insight if you have it. Um, and so we wanted to always compare what we were doing in each issue to what we said we were gonna do. And, um, and, uh, and, and be ruthless. If we were, if we were failing in any way, now, we may fail, but at least it’s, it’s a failure that we’re not aware of though, though, we always think we can get, um, better. And we we’re, we always say that, how can we do better? How can we do better work?

Bunny : (11:03)
So I’m gonna, I want our, my hear our listeners to hear in that first issue. Um, uh, just so you have an idea of the diversity of what Owen and John are talking about, the, the things, the interviews, um, you know, it says issue number one, how to rescue wild mustangs, how to become a fiesta princess, eat sushi in the desert, be a barber, cure a stutter, write love songs, plant the rain, negate, heal with Sound, save America. And those are, um, uh, maybe even the cover is a bit of a work of art because it’s not, um, doesn’t have all these excerpts on the side like other magazines do, telling you, trying to grab your eye. But, um, those titles are intriguing. I’m, how when you start looking for people to talk to, I love that you said that you would go on these walks and you were, you thought perhaps you were retired…

Owen: (12:10)
No, John said he was retired. Um, and I never had such such illusions. I just, for a moment in time since I was new to Santa Fe, I was effectively unemployed for the first time at all.

Bunny : (12:24)
Unemployed, got it. Not retired, but that you were sentimentally enthusiastic about this city that you were, were falling in love with

Owen: (12:34)
Effusive, effusive would be a better word, almost

Bunny : (12:37)
Effusive. I like that. Yeah. Um, I, which is exactly how I feel about Santa Fe specifically, but New Mexico in general, and, and people tend to make fun of me as well, because they’re like, what are you doing? I mean, you’re, you’re doing this podcast for free and you talk to all these different people. Um, but people are fascinating. Uh, everybody, um, almost, yes, seems to me to have, if they can figure it out, have a really fascinating, interesting story to share that I think makes the, the general fabric of humanity better. And you’ve located those people. Um, I’m curious about how you, did you just throw a hundred names in a hat because you knew so many and start pulling them out? How does that work?

Owen: (13:25)
You know, I do think that, that, um, having lived principally in, um, in Manhattan, uh, on the Hudson River, uh, and here, I think there’s a, how, how should I say it? A weirdly eclectic and high percentage of interesting people. Uh, and it isn’t just the high and the mighty, the people you’ve heard from, uh, it’s the people you meet, uh, all day long. Um, it is unusual that I meet someone, uh, you know, all in a day’s job. And, and, and since I’ve started, I now get references some from some of the interesting people I talked to. But IF what I found was, if you listen hard enough, almost everybody has a story. Um, sometimes they’re aware of their, you know, what’s most interesting about them, and sometimes you can help them, sometimes when we tell our own story, we need help in our narrative, if you will. I certainly need that. And so we try to, um, try to get that special something that is not only interesting to them potentially, or that’s why they’re doing it, that’s why they’re leading their life, but to others. And so, uh, frankly, um, it’s almost like, who don’t I find interesting? Well, I don’t like people who don’t tell me the truth, who lie to themselves and therefore lie to me who, who stretch the truth, um, or, um, or actually have, uh, nothing they, that they, um, that interests them in their own life. But it, it’s amazing how many people do not fit in that category. And so, uh, how did I find you know, the group of, uh, of people in the first interview? Well, my wife lives here, and I, by that point, I had met a quite a few people, and so did John. But, um, uh, I could, I could, uh, come into a room of people and more often than not, I end up with, uh, interview ideas.

Bunny : (15:34)
And if you were, I’m not gonna ask you to choose your favorite, but if you were gonna think about some of the stories that you found most intriguing, um, is there anything that jumped that, I mean, it’s maybe every single one of them, but if we were gonna describe one to, um, somebody who needs to obviously subscribe to the magazine or pick it up somewhere, um, who do you think of that you’ve interviewed that have,

Owen: (16:03)
It is interesting. I get asked that question all the time, and my answer was, generally speaking, it’s who I spoke to last, um, or, or recently. So, uh, uh, uh, curiously, maybe not. So curiously, you have fallen in love with the, uh, uh, people you talk to. And so, uh, they’re, they, um, if I do my job right, they, they, and they often become friends. And so I, I always come back and say, God, I had the best interview, best interview ever. And of course, I say that almost routinely, um, , so that no one, no one listens to me, um, or takes my enthusiasm too much to heart it. I mean, I, in the first issue, for example, I talked to a guy named Will who was in, and, and let me just say something about the cover of Wines. Um, we were kind of one of the magazines I used to edit and, and, uh, Coone, uh, with Spy Magazine. And so that was a, that was a sort of satire magazine for me. It was basically, um, how to be a, a 14 year old boy, uh, and, uh, and, and make obnoxious, uh, uh, uh, pranks on people you, you knew and didn’t know, but to, to us, the cover lines. So I was practiced in the art of, of pranks was my day job. And we were riffing a little bit on the cover, so we might do a piece about an auto ReSTOR and call How to Save America. Well, part of it was, was glib and some, and part of it was true. And let me tell you, if you like, I can give you an example of that story, um, and give you some sense. So, uh, I was introduced to this guy named Will, who was in the business of restoring old cars. And I went and had some, you know, came there early in the morning, it was freezing cold, and he offered me up some chilly, but in the process of the interviewing, he was extraordinary. And you know, you saw these, these, these, uh, beautiful classic American cars that he had saved from, from, uh, extinction, if you will. And I realized, and, and he had all these guys who had arcane skills that, um, you know, you and I could, uh, we all, I, I flatter myself in thinking I know something about cars, but these were advanced skill bases, but it was more than just a bunch of guys fixing the old cars in some way, shape or form. This guy, um, was trying to understand, uh, and get back to that, that car, the car way we used to make cars in the seventies, the, the discipline and the beauty and the originality. And somehow, um, it, it became that if you could get back to that thing, um, that was America, um, where people were, were, were able to build things and actually fix ’em themselves, um, where they were actually setting the genuine standard for how cars might look. And maybe in those days, even democracy might look, uh, odd as that may sound now, um, that you might get back to that thing that we all, all all know or think we’ve lost and have lost. If we could just return to those roots, maybe we could begin again. And, um, and, and will understood this, if not directly viscerally. And so there was both an optimism and a certain sadness about it. And so we were talking about cars, but we were in the end talking about a time and a, and a place, a place being America example.

Bunny : (19:55)
I love that one. I remember that I picked this, um, issue up out of curiosity, of course, in the beginning. And at the time, I didn’t know, um, Jody, Vevoda, who is, um, part of your team, rather

Owen: (20:16)
Absolutely. Part of our team. Yeah, we could not do it without Jodi.

Bunny : (20:20)
She became my friend after that point, but I picked it up because those, those, um, interviews, those titles all seemed so diverse. I mean, I’m, I’ve always been curious about how you become a fiesta princess. I’m, I’m not. Well, that’s interesting. I’m not native of Santa Fe and I’m from elsewhere in the state. Um, but to also talk about, um, binding and taming, um, wild mustangs, it’s, you weren’t, you weren’t interviewing the celebrities. You were interviewing people that you met either, you know, at the farmer’s market or the coffee shop or, or some. So it seemed very much, um, a magazine for every, I was gonna say, every man, every person. And, and I like that.

Owen: (21:06)
That was the intentional.

Bunny : (21:08)
Helpful. Yeah. And it’s, um, it’s, Santa Fe is an amazing place to live, but people who don’t live here tend to think that’s because of, not because of the people, but because of the landscape and the, um, and perhaps the events and the weather. They don’t, I don’t, you know, I mean, I sell real estate for a living so that I can support these habits, and these habits don’t.

Owen: (21:38)
Habits. It’s a very good habit to support as habits go. Your, your, your habit is unusually, uh, appealing and, and substantial .

Bunny : (21:50)
And, and I don’t run into people, people don’t get in touch with me and say, man, I wanna move to Santa Fe because I hear the people are amazing. And yet you are providing that. You’re, you’re letting us know. Um,

Owen: (22:06)
Well, I’m reporting on it. And, in doing so, I think, we’re implicitly inviting people to be in the inside as opposed to looking outside. Um, and so, uh, I think in the process, we, we, uh, we, uh, chip away at, at the and the mythology or the incorrect impressions some people might have of Santa Fe. Um, but I agree with your premise, which is that, uh, people don’t, they come here for the, uh, super for the land part, which is totally informs who the people are, but they don’t necessarily have a handle on who actually lives here.

Bunny : (22:56)
Well, now I have a stack of magazines at my office that I’m giving away, so, well,

Owen: (23:01)
Thank you.

Bunny : (23:02)
There’s hopefully gonna get, um, more of an impression of how amazing the people are. But, um, what’s next? I mean, do you just keep, are you gonna keep doing it? What’s, what’s happening?

Owen: (23:19)
You know, the, the first thing we wanted to do and I’m either blissfully confident or accurately describing this, um, bragging or, uh, or being, uh, uh, correct in my assessment. But I feel we’ve done a good job of the print magazine. I feel we, we, we knew what we wanted to do, but I feel good about, uh, that we’ve done it. We wanted to nail it before we did anything else. We, we, um, we made a, a firm pledge. This is John and I, not to do anything else until we, we felt we had the right voice and the right execution and the magazine, um, they’re, at least they’re related, but there’s three things that we are, are actively working on. And it, it’s informed by an editorial idea, the, or editorial observation. And, and that is this, when you, um, talk to someone, um, and, um, you, um, by definition, you, you cannot capture the essence of a person, even if you talk to them for an hour, an hour and a half in a, in a, in a, in a 25 word, 3000 word with photograph piece. You do the best you can. You try to have insight. You try to, uh, get into that, that thing that makes the person special. But what painful to me as an editor is what you leave out. And often print just doesn’t do it. So we’re starting a, a set of, of a film series, um, uh, PR professionally done that, that, that will reveal another side. And we’re going to, um, get those films all over the town in, in a variety of places, um, which, which I can talk to about later. But the biggest thing on our plate, if you will, is something we call Saturn, um, Santa Fe Magazine live at the lens where we’ll basically take our magazine, um, and turn it into a show. And so, uh, um, we’ll have a combination of, of, of dance, song, music, uh, interesting conversation, actual conversations, all that are informed by the interviews, the themselves and it that will, and we we’re going to fill that, fill the lens up, and we’re, it’s gonna be fun, and we’re gonna have to have an after party. But the idea is that we wanna, um, a allow, um, the audience and the people like the magazine to have a continuing relationship with the people, to actually see the people they feel they’ve gotten to know in the flesh, so to speak. And it will also, um, allow the people who we talk to who wanna have a continuing relationship, not only with the magazine, um, but with the people that they think they’re talking about. And they, and so in effect, the community will finally meet, and it gives us the, uh, as it gives us the chance to keep the conversation going, it also will inform the film part of it and will inform our digital and, um, finally get, and I always think that a magazine and a great party, good magazine and a good party should be tandem. So we intend to, to, uh, to, to make it a show, uh, to make it eng engage, gauging, and we also intend to have fun and parties and magazines and ideas and, and, uh, and the city itself, um, in some kind of joyous celebration is absolutely what we have in mind. So that’s next, that’s happening in April. And, um, we’re about ready to announce it to the world. So, uh, here you are, you’re, you’re, wow, one of the first people to know.

Bunny : (27:18)
I’m excited, I’m excited. I love a great party, and I love your magazine. So, um, so maybe we’ll talk again, um, right before this happens.

Owen: (27:29)
Well, and thank you. And I just wanna say, I really applaud what you’re doing, and, uh, I, um, we all can do what we, what we can do. And I think you’re, uh, you know what you are doing is something that, that I’m trying to do also. And, and I congratulate you for the original approach you’re taking and, uh, just how well you’re doing it. And, uh, thank you for, for talking to me.

Bunny : (27:59)
Well, thanks for being here. And that’s, that’s high praise coming from you, Owen. I do wanna tell you that I just, um, for if folks will go back and listen to last week’s podcast, um, that I just, uh, recorded a podcast about, um, you know, my Thanksgiving podcast about, um, all the things that I’m grateful for, because when we began this, this was a blog for, it’s been a blog for almost 15 years, and then about a year and a half ago when I was sick of doing this other podcast based on gratitude, I was very grateful , I was, I was really grateful. And then I was grateful to shift gears and start talking about New Mexico because it’s what I had been writing about for 14 years. And, um, I, in the last podcast, I said that this is, this feels to me like it’s not a service or a, uh, a source of entertainment for other people. It is so much fun for me, and I’m meeting and hearing the stories of the most interesting people e everywhere in the states. So, um, we, we are doing something similar. So I hope you’re having as much fun as I am.

Owen: (29:24)
I love my job.

Bunny : (29:28)
Me too. Yes. So let’s talk again. Thank you so much Owen. And anybody who needs a copy of Santa Fe Magazine, um, send me an email. I’ve got a Few copies.

Owen: (29:40)
Our website is SantaFemagazine.co. I had an old circulation teacher in my, in my, uh, vulnerable youth, and he’d say to me, oh, and you sell subscriptions one at a time, so please buy a subscription. Forgive my absolutely my, the vulgarity of my request. But we need your help. We, it, it’s one at a time and it’s how people like me get to get to do what we do and, and pay for what we’re trying to put out. So, uh, thank you for allowing me to make that request.

Bunny : (30:19)
In the podcast notes, there’s a link as well. So find it and subscribe. Thank you so much, Owen. Okay.

Owen: (30:25)
Thank, thank you. Bye-Bye.

Bunny : (30:27)
Thanks to all of you for taking the time to listen to the I Love New Mexico podcast. If you’ve enjoyed this episode, please feel free to share it with your friends on social media or by texting or messaging or emailing them a copy of the podcast. If you have a New Mexico story that you’d like to share with us, don’t hesitate to reach out. Our email address is I Love New Mexico blog@gmail.com, and we are always, always looking for interesting stories about New Mexico. Subscribe, share, and write a review so that we can continue to bring you these stories about the Land of Enchantment. Thank you so much.